Beretta A400 Cycling Issues

[derek2007]

Fun a box or two of magnum loads then try it again. I had an old gas blow back that was alike that. I locked the bolt back in place while it sat in the safe then dumped a box of magnum buck though it and boom cycles even the oldest cheapest potmetal rimed target loads now.

Graphite lube is nice especially in cold weather. Hope it sorts itself out

Also second the damaged or defective pistol ring possiblity

 

[Sniffer]

Fun a box or two of magnum loads then try it again. I had an old gas blow back that was alike that. I locked the bolt back in place while it sat in the safe then dumped a box of magnum buck though it and boom cycles even the oldest cheapest potmetal rimed target loads now.

Graphite lube is nice especially in cold weather. Hope it sorts itself out

Also second the damaged or defective pistol ring possiblity

Yup, feels like the right starting point. I just ordered some for spares.

 

[stubblejumper]

Starting to think this is the issue. Everything I have inspected seems good and that ring (while it looks fine) is the most likely fail point. I think I will order a few to have as spares and try a new one.

Has to be the easiest first step. Are they hard to swap - ie are they delicate / easily damaged?

The ring on my gun was quite obviously deformed, I am thinking by someone being careless while assembling the shotgun. I tried to straighten it and got it close, so it would cycle heavier loads, but not 1 oz. The new ring took some care to install, so as not to deform it , but once installed, 1 oz loads cycled reliably.

 

[Sniffer]

The ring on my gun was quite obviously deformed, I am thinking by someone being careless while assembling the shotgun. I tried to straighten it and got it close, so it would cycle heavier loads, but not 1 oz. The new ring took some care to install, so as not to deform it , but once installed, 1 oz loads cycled reliably.

Going to put this gun back together today so will inspect it for defects.

I have a few ordered so that will be one of the first things to try. They do look delicate so will having a couple on hand is probably a good thing.

I am convinced this gun should run anything with no issues (I watched a good few reviews before purchasing and that was one of the main reasons I went this direction) so hopefully this is the issue as it is a simple fix.

 

[maynard]

Yes the holes with the arrows in your picture should not be blocked like they are. You have to remove the pressure spring to get at them. You might need a spanner wrech to remove the nut or a pair of vice grips if you are careful. It is a very fine thread and under spring pressure for the first bit so it will seem like you are turning it forever before it come loose. Once clean, reassemble until the nut bottoms out and just snug.

 

[Sniffer]

Yes the holes with the arrows in your picture should not be blocked like they are. You have to remove the pressure spring to get at them. You might need a spanner wrech to remove the nut or a pair of vice grips if you are careful. It is a very fine thread and under spring pressure for the first bit so it will seem like you are turning it forever before it come loose. Once clean, reassemble until the nut bottoms out and just snug.

Could they really fully block in under 250 rounds though? Or are they blocked from not being lined up a certain way (ie need rotated a little)?

Here is a better picture:

 

[maynard]

That's what they should look like, that's all one piece and can not be rotated. Mine were totally plugged after probably a couple thousand rounds but the gun kept on going without a problem. Even light load challenger ejected 6-8 ft. Once cleaned it kicked the empties out about 10 ft.

 

[JIMMY 808]

I usually take time at every shoot that Stoeger is at to ask for free break in ammo.

The sales representative haven’t a clue about the products they sell. Constantly ask if they brought consumable parts with them. Sad fact is they don’t know what a return hammer return spring would be so they don’t carry the parts.

Get some better people stoeger.

 

[Sniffer]

I usually take time at every shoot that Stoeger is at to ask for free break in ammo.

The sales representative haven’t a clue about the products they sell. Constantly ask if they brought consumable parts with them. Sad fact is they don’t know what a return hammer return spring would be so they don’t carry the parts.

Get some better people stoeger.

I got a response from them today and so far am less than impressed.

I wont elaborate as hopefully I just caught someone thats not firing on all cylinders yet because its Monday morning and the situation improves.......

 

[Sniffer]

That's what they should look like, that's all one piece and can not be rotated. Mine were totally plugged after probably a couple thousand rounds but the gun kept on going without a problem. Even light load challenger ejected 6-8 ft. Once cleaned it kicked the empties out about 10 ft.

Ok, thanks for the info.

I am still trying to figure this thing out but it seems the angled ports (2) from the barrel let gas back into the piston cavity (ports are angled at 45 degrees backwards so the gas is more directed towards the back of the gun) which forces the piston to the rear and cycles the action and / or locks the bolt back on the last round.

From what I have read the part at the front with the 8 holes around the circumference is a valve that is used to auto regulate the pressure (ie opens under higher pressure to bleed off excess gas from 3 & 3 1/2" loads) to prevent the gun from being overgassed and stressing the internals.

If these holes were blocked the valve could not bleed off the excess gas and the gun would probably the overgassed (so should have more energy to cycle and lock back?)

When I look inside the hand guard there are gas deposits left by discharge from the valve opening and bleeding off, which makes sense as I shot 3" & 3 1/2" ammo.

Now that I know this I will clean it and monitor. Thinking out loud if this valve was set incorrectly (maybe if the spring tension was too low) then it would open too early and bleed off gas which would mean there is less to cycle the action so that could be what I am seeing.

I have cleaned the piston and will try a new sealing ring as well as monitoring for more signs gas has bled off from the valve when only using 2 3/4" lower powered loads.

 

[Blockcaver]

If you are shooting clay targets and not geese get an A400 with a 3" chamber.....Xcel or Xplor, etc. They cycle light 7/8 oz loads up to 3" magnums reliably in my and friend's experience.

The A400 3.5" chambered guns (Extreme plus, etc) are picky. I had one for a short time and had to shoot very fast 1 oz or 1-1/8 oz target loads to get it to function reliably. Another friend had one that was even pickier than mine.

Sold the 3.5" gun to a goose hunter that loves it and bought an Xcel Black Sporter and love it for target use. It doesn't get hunted as I have plenty of other much more suitable lighter upland guns to use.

Beretta should have differentiated the A400s more clearly between the two chamber lengths. The 3.5" gun also has a much larger diameter gas piston housing, serrated ring and piston vs the 3" guns.

 

[Sniffer]

If you are shooting clay targets and not geese get an A400 with a 3" chamber.....Xcel or Xplor, etc. They cycle light 7/8 oz loads up to 3" magnums reliably in my and friend's experience.

The A400 3.5" chambered guns (Extreme plus, etc) are picky. I had one for a short time and had to shoot very fast 1 oz or 1-1/8 oz target loads to get it to function reliably. Another friend had one that was even pickier than mine.

Sold the 3.5" gun to a goose hunter that loves it and bought an Xcel Black Sporter and love it for target use. It doesn't get hunted as I have plenty of other much more suitable lighter upland guns to use.

Beretta should have differentiated the A400s more clearly between the two chamber lengths. The 3.5" gun also has a much larger diameter gas piston housing, serrated ring and piston vs the 3" guns.

Everything you say makes sense.

If that is the case then essentially Beretta have lied on their A400 manual literature as they clearly state that the gun should run any kind of load (it also suggests that their self regulating gas system does not work properly across the entire spectrum of ammo it says it does):

 

[BP4W]

I own a 3.5" Beretta and helped broken in multiple 3.5" Berettas. They all cycle standard 3 dram target loads with zero issues. My older one even runs light loads (2.5 dram) with no issues. I am genuinely stumped as to why it wouldn't cycle after ~100 rounds.


Like someone mentioned above, some A400s do come with defective piston rings, some of them might deform or pop out and leak, but it'd be very obvious to spot during a visual inspection.


Ironically, the only way to make my Beretta not cycle target loads is to meticulously deep clean the gas system, something I do once a year. It will then occasionally fail to feed for 10-15 rounds or so, and will start working like clockwork again once the gas system got a light dusting of powder after a box of ammo.

Apart from that, I literally cannot get any of these Berettas to not cycle. I've went as far as loading an Aguila 1.75" mini shell in the chamber and a regular shell in the mag (since the lifter can't feed mini shells), and the mini shell was able to cycle the action and feed a new round in.

 

[BP4W]

Beretta should have differentiated the A400s more clearly between the two chamber lengths. The 3.5" gun also has a much larger diameter gas piston housing, serrated ring and piston vs the 3" guns.

This is a personal pet peeve of mine. Both the A300 and A400 line now uses two kinds of piston design. It used to be an easy distinction but they are getting more and more confusing by the day.

There's the small diameter piston housing and a small, solid piston that terminates the magazine tube derived from the Classic A300~304/390/391, then there's the large diameter piston housing and the annular gas piston that rides outside the mag tube and allows you to fit an extended magazine, first introduced on the A391 3.5 Xtrema and can be found on every Beretta with an "Xtreme" in its name afterwards.

Currently the A300 Outlander/Ultima and select A400s (Xcel/Xplor, including the 3.5" Xplor Unico) uses the small piston and are unable to use a magazine extension, while the A300 Ultima Patrol/Snow Goose, A350 Xtreme, the 1301 series, and the rest of the A400s have the large annular gas piston and therefore are able to use an extended magazine.

The big, annular piston started as a distinctive feature on their higher end 3.5" waterfowl guns and is also a good pairing with their tactical/competition products as it allows the use of an extension. But Beretta is segmenting their product lines so much these days, you end up with a 3.5" A400 that doesn't have the big piston (Xplor Unico) or a 3" A300 that has this piston (Ultima Patrol).

 

[waldo54]

I have an A400 Extreme Plus with a 3 1/2" chamber and kick-off, I bought it new because I got a great deal on it, it will never see a 3 1/2" shell as long as I own it as I just don't feel the need for all that extra whompum, for waterfowl we hunt over decoy's so most shots are 35 yards max and I shoot mostly 2 3/4 " 1 1/16 oz steel loads or 3" 1 1/8 oz @ 1550 fps they kill the biggest of geese cleanly, no problem.
I have run light taget loads through it also down to the 1 oz @ 1180 top guns and super targets and can honestly say it has never failed to cycle, had the grandkids out shooting clay's last summer and we ran 150 - 1 oz loads though it without 1 hiccup, I have never tried any 7/8 oz loads so can't speek for those.
Love my A400

 

[kevin g]

Sniffer..not all 1 1/8 oz loads are 3 dram loads. There are several Challenger loads with 1 1/8 oz in them but only 2 3/4 dram equivalent. Here are a couple of them.
Last one noted IS a 3 dram load.
My buddy has one of those same A-400's. He calls it black death..lol. Marks semi will also cycle just about any ammo. But he normally tries to run 3 dram loads in it...one less thing to worry about on the SC course ! LOL

If you can, always try and use a 3 dram shell in your semi auto..esp with a 3 1/2 in chamber. The A400's with the 3 inch chambers are more forgiving. Couple of my squad mates have them and often shoot 7/8 oz loads with out issue. I have a SX3 Sporting that'll gobble up whatever I feed it..including 3/4 oz lighter loads I make for my grand kids.

Challenger Target 12GAx2 3/4″ #8 1 1/8oz 1145FPS 2-3/4DRM 250 RNDS​

Make:

Challenger

Model:

Target

Calibre/Gauge

12 Gauge

Bullet Weight/Shot Size:

#8

Rounds Per Box:

25

Rounds Per Case:

250

Manufacturer Number:

40018

Challenger Target 12GAx2 3/4″ #9 1 1/8oz 1145FPS 2-3/4DRM 250 RNDS​

Make:

Challenger

Model:

Target

Calibre/Gauge

12 Gauge

Bullet Weight/Shot Size:

#9

Rounds Per Box:

25

Rounds Per Case:

250

Manufacturer Number:

40019

Challenger Handicap Target 12GAx2 3/4″ #8 1 1/8oz 1200FPS 3DRM 250 RNDS​

Make:

Challenger

Model:

Handicap

Calibre/Gauge

12 Gauge

Bullet Weight/Shot Size:

#8

Rounds Per Box:

25

Rounds Per Case:

250

Manufacturer Number:

40028

 

[brybenn]

My 20ga a400 wont lock back woth challenger shells however it never fails to function.
My a400 12 and 28 both run flawlessly. My xplor 12ga will cycle my light 7/8oz loads and even my 3/4oz loads the same as my 1301 comp
Id run 100 steel 3" waterfowl loads thru it fast. Get it hot

Make sure when you seat the barrel and screw the mag cap on the forend seats tight against the reciever

 

[Sniffer]

I own a 3.5" Beretta and helped broken in multiple 3.5" Berettas. They all cycle standard 3 dram target loads with zero issues. My older one even runs light loads (2.5 dram) with no issues. I am genuinely stumped as to why it wouldn't cycle after ~100 rounds.


Like someone mentioned above, some A400s do come with defective piston rings, some of them might deform or pop out and leak, but it'd be very obvious to spot during a visual inspection.


Ironically, the only way to make my Beretta not cycle target loads is to meticulously deep clean the gas system, something I do once a year. It will then occasionally fail to feed for 10-15 rounds or so, and will start working like clockwork again once the gas system got a light dusting of powder after a box of ammo.

Apart from that, I literally cannot get any of these Berettas to not cycle. I've went as far as loading an Aguila 1.75" mini shell in the chamber and a regular shell in the mag (since the lifter can't feed mini shells), and the mini shell was able to cycle the action and feed a new round in.

Thats encouraging to hear that it is normal for 3.5" A400s to run 2 3/4" ammo with no issues.

I looked mine over today again and the piston had some carbon for sure but nothing that I would worry about. I have studied the piston ring closely and it looks fine. I cleaned everything up with my ultrasonic and I have new rings ordered.

 

[Sniffer]

My 20ga a400 wont lock back woth challenger shells however it never fails to function.
My a400 12 and 28 both run flawlessly. My xplor 12ga will cycle my light 7/8oz loads and even my 3/4oz loads the same as my 1301 comp
Id run 100 steel 3" waterfowl loads thru it fast. Get it hot

Make sure when you seat the barrel and screw the mag cap on the forend seats tight against the reciever

I just built it back up again tonight and I tightened everything up good.

Not that I believe it's related but I took the chance while it was apart to give it a light hone and polished a couple of parts on the receiver.

Plan to try a bunch of different ammo next time out.

 

[Sniffer]

Sniffer..not all 1 1/8 oz loads are 3 dram loads. There are several Challenger loads with 1 1/8 oz in them but only 2 3/4 dram equivalent. Here are a couple of them.
Last one noted IS a 3 dram load.
My buddy has one of those same A-400's. He calls it black death..lol. Marks semi will also cycle just about any ammo. But he normally tries to run 3 dram loads in it...one less thing to worry about on the SC course ! LOL

If you can, always try and use a 3 dram shell in your semi auto..esp with a 3 1/2 in chamber. The A400's with the 3 inch chambers are more forgiving. Couple of my squad mates have them and often shoot 7/8 oz loads with out issue. I have a SX3 Sporting that'll gobble up whatever I feed it..including 3/4 oz lighter loads I make for my grand kids.

Challenger Target 12GAx2 3/4″ #8 1 1/8oz 1145FPS 2-3/4DRM 250 RNDS​

Make:

Challenger

Model:

Target

Calibre/Gauge

12 Gauge

Bullet Weight/Shot Size:

#8

Rounds Per Box:

25

Rounds Per Case:

250

Manufacturer Number:

40018

Challenger Target 12GAx2 3/4″ #9 1 1/8oz 1145FPS 2-3/4DRM 250 RNDS​

Make:

Challenger

Model:

Target

Calibre/Gauge

12 Gauge

Bullet Weight/Shot Size:

#9

Rounds Per Box:

25

Rounds Per Case:

250

Manufacturer Number:

40019

Challenger Handicap Target 12GAx2 3/4″ #8 1 1/8oz 1200FPS 3DRM 250 RNDS​

Make:

Challenger

Model:

Handicap

Calibre/Gauge

12 Gauge

Bullet Weight/Shot Size:

#8

Rounds Per Box:

25

Rounds Per Case:

250

Manufacturer Number:

40028

Good to know. I dunno what it is about Challenger but none of my guns like it it seems.

Strange thing is my old VM ran like a champ on the Challenger in the dark blue boxes, and then I tried the stuff in the blue and white boxes and the difference was stark.

Plan to test a bunch of ammo next time out - none of it will be Challenger.