HOW LIGHT IS TOO LIGHT?

A couple points... everyone is talking about rifle weight and pack weight, but no discussion of hunters physical size and strength... a 40 pound pack might feel like too much to an office worker that weighs 150... but 80 pounds is doable for a jacked guy of 250 pounds. Same goes for rifle, the physical capacity of the shooter should come into play in this discussion. I am by no means "jacked" but at 6'4" 250 pounds, I can likely manage more weight than a lighter guy. One of my hunting partners, the one that does most remote trips with me, weighs 170 and is fit, but he is not comfortable with either my rifles or my packs... my point is that it is all relative, we can't simple talk about the rifle or the pack without factoring in the guy carrying them.

This pack was 90 pounds, for a long ass hike out to the take out lake... and the rifle is 8 3/4 pounds... neither what most would consider a mountain rig.

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Hoytcannon is spot on.

At this point of my life, I'm almost 100 pounds lighter and ten inches shorter. Aging/ailments/doing body altering schit shrinks a body by almost 5 inches over 60 years.

When I was younger/fitter, 60+ pound packs were part of the job. Not anymore.

Arthritic knees, cracked spines, cuts, and torn ligaments all take their toll. Then comes the common things, which we have to take the cure for, because the alternative is worse.

Carry what you can, comfortably, over a long hike. If you take too much, you may have to leave some behind and go back to get it later.

I hunted with a fellow who would weigh out all of his meals for the hunt, put them all into little packets, and didn't allow for anything extra. Big mistake. He never did learn from that mistake, and after the second hunt, I wouldn't go on extended backpack hunts with him anymore.

He passed out on both hunts. He just didn't realize how much energy he was burning off. He was tall, like HC, but not strong. He had a sit down job, and was very careful about how much he ate because he didn't want to get heavy. He just couldn't bring himself to bring more food.

On the second hunt, I was prepared for his antics and brought along a kilo of raisins, just in case. On the first hunt, I couldn't convince him to eat some of my food. Same happened on the second hunt, and because of that foolish special kind of stupid, we spent an extra day in the bush, in harsh weather.

We hunted again after that, but only day hunts, or camps with lots of supplies.

You not only have to be smart about the weight you're carrying, but the partner you may be carrying out.

Backpack trips for sheep, goats, or any other critter just isn't something to be taken lightly, or treated as a lark. Poor decisions, foolish mistakes, can be death knells.
 
Indeed it’s all relative. I’m a fit 6’2” 235lbs( trying to keep going down) and I’ve been known to ba able to carry lots of weight…. But since I’ve been a labour most of my life my body is paying for it now and lighter is better on the long run. Of course the same me with a different job more office oriented wouldn’t have the wear and tear and would probably still willing to carry heavy weights. My last black bear(first one) I carried out for 3 km on semi difficult terrain in one trip, the entire bear(gutted) all strapped up in my pack exo 3, must have been 80lbs and it wasn’t too much suffering but is it smart? Is it the way to do it? It was that day 😆
 
patrickb41 said:
Yea I just do two dinner mountain house meals and a piece of jerkey. Not gonna starve to death makes you wanna kill something a lil more. So what u get a lil hungry gotta be comfortable being uncomfortable
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i need all that food , for my body to perform at top levels. Usually have enough double chicken burger squirrel away for the first leg of the climb. Just a little guy with a big stomache engine.
Clean food like basil nuts and pistachios .
Protein shakes , collagen, creatine weigh nothing. Prepack in a zip lock bag. I add water to bag. Snack and treat like old school milk bag.

I try to bulk up for my August hunts. Putting on 5 lbs of fat is good energy to store. In my case....
Saved all the weigh i could on gear , tiny hockey stick rifle . Tuff to shoot ,BUT
love my jelly bean stash on trail.lol.
 
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Big bore dinosaur said:
i need all that food , for my body to perform at top levels. Usually have enough double chicken burger squirrel away for the first leg of the climb. Just a little guy with a big stomache engine.
Clean food like basil nuts and pistachios .
Protein shakes , collagen, creatine weigh nothing. Prepack in a zip lock bag. I add water to bag. Snack and treat like old school milk bag.

I try to bulk up for my August hunts. Putting on 5 lbs of fat is good energy to store. In my case....
Saved all the weigh i could on gear , tiny hockey stick rifle . Tuff to shoot ,BUT
love my jelly bean stash on trail.lol.
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ill bring a zip lock bag and a log of chew. Able to take over the world with it :ROFLMAO:
 
hoytcanon said:
A couple points... everyone is talking about rifle weight and pack weight, but no discussion of hunters physical size and strength... a 40 pound pack might feel like too much to an office worker that weighs 150... but 80 pounds is doable for a jacked guy of 250 pounds. Same goes for rifle, the physical capacity of the shooter should come into play in this discussion. I am by no means "jacked" but at 6'4" 250 pounds, I can likely manage more weight than a lighter guy. One of my hunting partners, the one that does most remote trips with me, weighs 170 and is fit, but he is not comfortable with either my rifles or my packs... my point is that it is all relative, we can't simple talk about the rifle or the pack without factoring in the guy carrying them.

This pack was 90 pounds, for a long ass hike out to the take out lake... and the rifle is 8 3/4 pounds... neither what most would consider a mountain rig.

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While that is true, it doesn't matter how fit you are or what your physique is. A lighter pack allows you to go further, climb higher, less stress on joints etc.

In hunting we can't be "ultralight" like hardcore thru-hikers can be because we need rifle, optics and the ability to clean and carry game. Those ultralight packs with no suspension are never going to work. However, you can definitely do a 50-55 lbs pack without sacrificing warmth or comfort, and dropping 20 lbs off a pack is going to let you go further and hunt harder no matter your size or fitness level.
 
DGY said:
Indeed it’s all relative. I’m a fit 6’2” 235lbs( trying to keep going down) and I’ve been known to ba able to carry lots of weight…. But since I’ve been a labour most of my life my body is paying for it now and lighter is better on the long run. Of course the same me with a different job more office oriented wouldn’t have the wear and tear and would probably still willing to carry heavy weights. My last black bear(first one) I carried out for 3 km on semi difficult terrain in one trip, the entire bear(gutted) all strapped up in my pack exo 3, must have been 80lbs and it wasn’t too much suffering but is it smart? Is it the way to do it? It was that day 😆
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That's when you learn the "art" of deboning the meat you're going to carry out. Hides and heads are heavy as well.
 
Hand Skills said:
Hey Patrick,

There is no such thing as 'too light' when it comes to CARRYING a rifle.

When it comes to SHOOTING a rifle, weight adds stability and soaks up recoil allowing for more precision.

I went down the ultralight path a number of years ago, and there is a point where they become difficult for me to shoot well.

Some of this can be tamed with careful weight distribution, but shooting ULTRALIGHT rifles off-hand is quite an art form, and here physical fitness plays a bigger role than anyone wants to admit.

My comfort zone these days is;

7lb rifle - 300yd and in
8lb rifle - 400yd and in
9lb rifle - 500yd and in

If you've already got the barrel, get it spun up and start breaking it in with the stock you have..

Only YOU can answer the question.

I have had a couple of the Wildcat Ultralight stocks, and they are very rigid and great to shoot but these days I don't mind paying a bit of a weight penalty for better ergos. The Felso BH-1 comes in a little heavier, but the wider forend makes it easier to grip and more stable on a front rest. The way the palm swell flows into the thumb shelf is poetry. The negative comb reduces felt recoil and makes it easier to spot trace/impact and the toe line along bottom of the stock is a lot more shallow which I find much more 'rear rest friendly'. I really don't mind the extra 6 or 8 ounces, because the ergos help make my job as a driver easier. The stock plays a large part in how 'forgiving' a rifle is to shoot!

For what it's worth, from one nut to another 🤓
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you just arent shooting enough. there is a reason the hk416 is 10lbs. <300yds gun.
 
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patrickb41 said:
Yea I just do two dinner mountain house meals and a piece of jerkey. Not gonna starve to death makes you wanna kill something a lil more. So what u get a lil hungry gotta be comfortable being uncomfortable
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Good god, the sodium levels in those MH meals is off the charts! My arteries are clogging just thinking about half of one let alone two.
 
cam1936 said:
While that is true, it doesn't matter how fit you are or what your physique is. A lighter pack allows you to go further, climb higher, less stress on joints etc.

In hunting we can't be "ultralight" like hardcore thru-hikers can be because we need rifle, optics and the ability to clean and carry game. Those ultralight packs with no suspension are never going to work. However, you can definitely do a 50-55 lbs pack without sacrificing warmth or comfort, and dropping 20 lbs off a pack is going to let you go further and hunt harder no matter your size or fitness level.
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Dropping 30 pounds of fat and gaining 10 pounds of muscle will let you carry a pack 20 pounds heavier and go farther too...

My point.
 
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I’m a flatlander from Ontario so I don’t know mountains but will agree that a pack with a frame is necessary , for me anyway. Many canoe trips through Algonquin ( week at a time ) portaging fairly deep in I found the framed pack did let me cary more and carried better on my back.
Someone previously touched on accuracy with a lightweight rifle not needing to be moa accurate when shooting at game, 3-4 inch groups at 200 yards ain’t gonna make a difference on game and the hunt will be successful.
If I had to pick the sweet spot with shoot ability and Carr ability I would say 7- 8.50 lbs, as long as the hunter is capable with the rifle all will be well.
 
cam1936 said:
For sure, and dropping 30 pounds of fat, gaining 10 lbs of muscle and dropping 20 pounds off the pack will go even further.
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The question becomes, how far do you need to go, how long will you be out and what is sufficiently comfortable for you as an individual... we aren't all the same. What is right for one is not right for another. Call it splitting hairs or become anal-retentive on the minutia (your titanium spork) and ignoring the elephant in the room (the guy in the mirror), is counter productive.
 
ShrtRnd said:
Good god, the sodium levels in those MH meals is off the charts! My arteries are clogging just thinking about half of one let alone two.
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It's high for a reason, and it's not taste. When you're working as hard on a pack in hunt, or even just a week long hike, your body uses a lot of salt, along with other electrolytes, and it needs to be replaced asap, or your mind starts doing funny things without weed.
 
I wouldn't advise anyone to go on a week long back pack hunt with a soft pack.

We went into one lake about 8000 ft, looking for Goats. A friend had dropped off supplies for us with a float plane. Saved a lot of effort. It was all dehydrated stuff of course. He had just enough room to land and take off, with only himself on the float plane. Weight was critical for him as well.
 
bearhunter said:
It's high for a reason, and it's not taste. When you're working as hard on a pack in hunt, or even just a week long hike, your body uses a lot of salt, along with other electrolytes, and it needs to be replaced asap, or your mind starts doing funny things without weed.
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Still they have way too much salt in them and plus they taste like schit. We do our own dehydrated meals( and yes you are right they are not freezdried and we loose some of the nutrients and it take a little more time to have them ready to eat) they taste way better, we know what’s in them and it is food we wanna eat.

There is no debates regarding fitness and how light is your load, the fitter you are with the lightest load you are able to get, the less fatigue you will get it’s as simple as that, for me the lightest will be probably be around 45lbs all in. Less than that and it could be a safety issue for up here and a comfort issue as well, been there done it no need to stil do it.
 
bearhunter said:
It's high for a reason, and it's not taste. When you're working as hard on a pack in hunt, or even just a week long hike, your body uses a lot of salt, along with other electrolytes, and it needs to be replaced asap, or your mind starts doing funny things without weed.
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I think I lose more calories from the sh its I get after eating mountain house.
 
MH doesn't agree with me either.

I used to get my dehydrated food from a Mennonite community that sold their stuff to Roger's Flour, just north of Vernon. It was always good and they were careful to ask what I would be doing when the food was going to be cooked. They did add a bit extra salt and some other minerals, but not much, and it was always delicious. I never did take a likeing to dehydrated eggs though.
 
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