IWI Carmel – Magazine Feeding with bolt closed

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Neon Wolf

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Has anyone else experienced an issue with an IWI Carmel where the rifle will only reliably feed if the magazine is inserted with the bolt locked open?
On mine, if I insert a loaded magazine with the bolt closed and then cycle the charging handle, it won’t feed properly. If I lock the bolt open first, insert the magazine, and then release the bolt, it feeds normally.
I’ve tried both PMAGs and LAR-15 Duramags and get the same result with both.I’ve also made sure the magazine is fully locked in place and tried loading each magazine two rounds short, but the issue is unchanged.
 
Neon Wolf said:
Has anyone else experienced an issue with an IWI Carmel where the rifle will only reliably feed if the magazine is inserted with the bolt locked open?
On mine, if I insert a loaded magazine with the bolt closed and then cycle the charging handle, it won’t feed properly. If I lock the bolt open first, insert the magazine, and then release the bolt, it feeds normally.
I’ve tried both PMAGs and LAR-15 Duramags and get the same result with both.I’ve also made sure the magazine is fully locked in place and tried loading each magazine two rounds short, but the issue is unchanged.
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It's due to the lack of space of pinned magazines / LAR mags.
Tavor also has the same issue.
An unpinned 30 rounds mag wont' have such issue.
 
Goo98 said:
maybe it only likes stanags like the f2000
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The Carmel is NOT officially supported as a compatible firearm for the 5.56mm Pmag M3.

This is easy to fact check.

It says right on the package:

Compatibility: AR15, M16, M4, HK®416, FN®SCAR™ MK16/16S, SA-80, M27 (IAR)

Is the carmel on there? Nope.

magaziny-magpul-pmag-30-gen-3-556x45-ar15m4m16-i-vpo-140_1655215908.png
 
“Won’t feed properly…”

How?

  • Magazine won’t properly seat?
  • Bolt won’t fully travel rearward?
  • Bolt face does not pick up round off magazine?
  • Round impacts front of magazine and won’t begin to chamber?
  • Round won’t fully strip round off magazine?
  • Bolt will not close
 
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Neon Wolf said:
Has anyone else experienced an issue with an IWI Carmel where the rifle will only reliably feed if the magazine is inserted with the bolt locked open?
On mine, if I insert a loaded magazine with the bolt closed and then cycle the charging handle, it won’t feed properly. If I lock the bolt open first, insert the magazine, and then release the bolt, it feeds normally.
I’ve tried both PMAGs and LAR-15 Duramags and get the same result with both.I’ve also made sure the magazine is fully locked in place and tried loading each magazine two rounds short, but the issue is unchanged.
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I just checked mine. Bolt forward, insert loaded magazine, and pull charging handle.

Feeds every time.

Edit to add: just tried a pmag. Worked fine.
 
JeffMan said:
I just checked mine. Bolt forward, insert loaded magazine, and pull charging handle.

Feeds every time.

Edit to add: just tried a pmag. Worked fine.
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To be clear, it does feed a round from bolt closed. But the bolt doesn't fully lock. Seems like everything is working when it's loaded in but doesn't fire. Reducing number of rounds in the magazine had some intermittent success, only tried with the pmag. Might just be stiff springs as all the mags were new.
 
Feminist said:
The Carmel is NOT officially supported as a compatible firearm for the 5.56mm Pmag M3.

This is easy to fact check.

It says right on the package:

Compatibility: AR15, M16, M4, HK®416, FN®SCAR™ MK16/16S, SA-80, M27 (IAR)

Is the carmel on there? Nope.

View attachment 1188132
Click to expand...

I strongly suspect that information has been on that label from before the Carmel was even heard of. If that is the case then it probably was never tested (which means it may or may not work).

The list pretty contains broad rifle types. To think about it another way if they listed every rifle that is compatible there probably wouldn't be enough room on the packaging.
 
Sniffer said:
I strongly suspect that information has been on that label from before the Carmel was even heard of. If that is the case then it probably was never tested (which means it may or may not work).

The list pretty contains broad rifle types. To think about it another way if they listed every rifle that is compatible there probably wouldn't be enough room on the packaging.
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Sounds like everything is tight / new.

You mention that the jamming happens if you run the charging handle (ie manually) - what if you insert a full mag on a closed bolt with a round already in the chamber and then fire a round - does it pick up a new round from the magazine and go fully into battery?
 
Sniffer said:
Sounds like everything is tight / new.

You mention that the jamming happens if you run the charging handle (ie manually) - what if you insert a full mag on a closed bolt with a round already in the chamber and then fire a round - does it pick up a new round from the magazine and go fully into battery?
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Didn't try but i suspect it would as when the bolt is open and the mag is inserted loaded to its capacity, it will run flawlessly.
 
Neon Wolf said:
Has anyone else experienced an issue with an IWI Carmel where the rifle will only reliably feed if the magazine is inserted with the bolt locked open?
On mine, if I insert a loaded magazine with the bolt closed and then cycle the charging handle, it won’t feed properly. If I lock the bolt open first, insert the magazine, and then release the bolt, it feeds normally.
I’ve tried both PMAGs and LAR-15 Duramags and get the same result with both.I’ve also made sure the magazine is fully locked in place and tried loading each magazine two rounds short, but the issue is unchanged.
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Not mean to insult anyone here - How did you charge your rifle?

Since we have no idea of your experience, let's go back to 101. Make sure not to ride the charging handle - pull it all the way til stop and let go.
 
Then the gun is tight and when better broken in it will most likely be good.

Be sure not to ride the charging handle forward, I would get it as far back as possible and let it go - give it the best shot possible at having enough energy to pickup a new round a get it all the way forward into the chamber.
 
Neon Wolf said:
To be clear, it does feed a round from bolt closed. But the bolt doesn't fully lock. Seems like everything is working when it's loaded in but doesn't fire. Reducing number of rounds in the magazine had some intermittent success, only tried with the pmag. Might just be stiff springs as all the mags were new.
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If I ride the charging handle EVEN SLIGHTLY it won’t lock closed.

The Carmel requires the full force of its recoil spring to rotate the locking lugs into position.

Two ways to do this:

1. Pull the charging handle back and manually lock the bolt open. Then use the bolt release on an inserted magazine. KA-CHUNK!

2. With an inserted magazine, pull the charging handle all the way back then let the charging handle slip through your fingers at the back of its full travel.

Don’t ride the charging handle forward at all. If you’re used to bolt actions, pumps, or levers, this action could feel odd to you at first.

I trained my son on a bolt action and with semi autos, he feels like he’s abusing them when he drops the bolt. It’s built for it tho.

The only time I don’t let the bolt slam forward is on an empty chamber - but I’m overly cautious. Makes me cringe to see people close the action on an empty 1911…. 😬
 
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JeffMan said:
The only time I don’t let the bolt slam forward is on an empty chamber - but I’m overly cautious. Makes me cringe to see people close the action on an empty 1911…. 😬
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In the military and likely in police training academy they do that all day long to all small arms.... Probably more than live firing. So this is completely ok to anything built for that kind of audiences.
 
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