Other than the Zen aspect of sitting at your bench and the intellectual exercise of working up loads, isn't the whole point of handloading to get "the most" out of your ammo? meaning the most accuracy, most FPS, most ft.lbs or simply the most ammo you can?
.308 or 30-06
- Thread starter bdplumbing
- Start date
I watched a very interesting breakdown on the top 10 rounds of all time ; convinced me to switch from .270 to 30-06 for my reloading efforts . I’m glad I did .
I own 300RUM, 300WSM, 300 Win Mag, 30-06, 308, 30TC, and multiples of some of those cartridges. And I always try push the most I can out of each one, then back off a little to where I get both speed and accuracy. So saying just use a larger cartridge isn't always the answer...haha
im interested; what was it that made you switch? any links to the vids?
I asked a friend a few years ago about the 270 vs the 30-06 argument. Here was his response. I think it’s worth a read.
“That is a tough one, but I will give you my personal assessment. I have been using both since the mid 90's. At first, I used the two mixed in with several 7mm and 300 mags, but have hunted almost exclusively with a 270 or 30-06 since 2008.
The 30-06 has a much better selection of bullets available, both in factory loads and component bullets. You can find almost any bullet you could possibly conceive from lightweight varmint bullets to 250 grain Woodleighs. The 1-10' or 1-11" twist you find in most 30-06's will stabilize most of them. I think this is due to the fact that 220's were a fairly common load from the early days of the 30-06.
Like all older cartridges, new powders have given the 30-06 velocities that were unheard of 20 years ago. 150's at 3100 or so, 165's around 2950-3000, 180's around 2850 and 200's at 2750 are all easy to achieve. At that point, it is pretty hard to say a 270 has any real world advantage. I doubt a hunter would notice much difference in a 150 grain 30 caliber bullet at 3100 or a 130 grain 270 caliber bullet at 3100, without getting too gacky. about SD or frontal area.
Last summer I spent some time with my new 30-06 loaded with the 212 ELDX and R26. I was able to get 2750 without any effort at all and the cases have been fired 8-10 times and are still trucking along. That brings up another point, that Lapua brass is readily available for the 30-06, if a guy likes Lapua brass. The 270 has a smaller selection of better quality brass. I recently got 100 pieces of RWS 270 brass. I paid more than Lapua and while good, it is not as consistent as the Lapua.
As far as effect on game goes.....I have not been able to discern any difference on sheep and deer sized game. Both will kill with more power than is necessary. In my experience, I think I have seen more 'effect, or impact, or reaction to the shot' or whatever you like to call it with a 30-06 on animals starting with grizzly, caribou, and elk sized stuff. It may be a mental thing, but I would rather carry a bloody pack full of caribou meat through the alders with a 30-06 loaded with .308, 220 grain Partitions (or whatnot) than .277, 160 grain Partitions.
I will probably always have a 270, as I am a far gone O'Connor fan, and my wife likes to shoot my 270 due to the slightly lower recoil with 130's. Having said that, I have spent hundreds of hours with Brad O'Connor over the years, including staying at his house multiple times, and he claims Jack would always say the 30-06 was a more versatile all around cartridge. He will then point out that while he always had a 270 available while hunting in Canada, that something like 11 of Jacks 12 grizzlies were taken with the 30-06's he also had along on the trips.
Another guy I know, who is a dyed in the wool 270 guy, goes to Africa every year on high volume plains game hunts. He sees literally dozens and dozens of animals taken every year, from impala to eland. Multiple times in the last few years he has told me that while he still loves his 270's, he has found the 30-06 to be a little better on the bigger plains game. And as John Oosthuizen once told me, if you run out of 30-06 ammo, just look under the floormats in the Land Cruiser….there will be some there.“
“That is a tough one, but I will give you my personal assessment. I have been using both since the mid 90's. At first, I used the two mixed in with several 7mm and 300 mags, but have hunted almost exclusively with a 270 or 30-06 since 2008.
The 30-06 has a much better selection of bullets available, both in factory loads and component bullets. You can find almost any bullet you could possibly conceive from lightweight varmint bullets to 250 grain Woodleighs. The 1-10' or 1-11" twist you find in most 30-06's will stabilize most of them. I think this is due to the fact that 220's were a fairly common load from the early days of the 30-06.
Like all older cartridges, new powders have given the 30-06 velocities that were unheard of 20 years ago. 150's at 3100 or so, 165's around 2950-3000, 180's around 2850 and 200's at 2750 are all easy to achieve. At that point, it is pretty hard to say a 270 has any real world advantage. I doubt a hunter would notice much difference in a 150 grain 30 caliber bullet at 3100 or a 130 grain 270 caliber bullet at 3100, without getting too gacky. about SD or frontal area.
Last summer I spent some time with my new 30-06 loaded with the 212 ELDX and R26. I was able to get 2750 without any effort at all and the cases have been fired 8-10 times and are still trucking along. That brings up another point, that Lapua brass is readily available for the 30-06, if a guy likes Lapua brass. The 270 has a smaller selection of better quality brass. I recently got 100 pieces of RWS 270 brass. I paid more than Lapua and while good, it is not as consistent as the Lapua.
As far as effect on game goes.....I have not been able to discern any difference on sheep and deer sized game. Both will kill with more power than is necessary. In my experience, I think I have seen more 'effect, or impact, or reaction to the shot' or whatever you like to call it with a 30-06 on animals starting with grizzly, caribou, and elk sized stuff. It may be a mental thing, but I would rather carry a bloody pack full of caribou meat through the alders with a 30-06 loaded with .308, 220 grain Partitions (or whatnot) than .277, 160 grain Partitions.
I will probably always have a 270, as I am a far gone O'Connor fan, and my wife likes to shoot my 270 due to the slightly lower recoil with 130's. Having said that, I have spent hundreds of hours with Brad O'Connor over the years, including staying at his house multiple times, and he claims Jack would always say the 30-06 was a more versatile all around cartridge. He will then point out that while he always had a 270 available while hunting in Canada, that something like 11 of Jacks 12 grizzlies were taken with the 30-06's he also had along on the trips.
Another guy I know, who is a dyed in the wool 270 guy, goes to Africa every year on high volume plains game hunts. He sees literally dozens and dozens of animals taken every year, from impala to eland. Multiple times in the last few years he has told me that while he still loves his 270's, he has found the 30-06 to be a little better on the bigger plains game. And as John Oosthuizen once told me, if you run out of 30-06 ammo, just look under the floormats in the Land Cruiser….there will be some there.“
I have not read this whole thread
I have 5 .308 rifles…..
I guess you know my opinion…
I’ve shot moose, elk, deer etc mostly 1-2 shot kills.
I find 30-06 to have too much recoil for me- I’m an old man working hard at being grumpy…lol
308 is IMO cheaper to reload and I like the short action which even I can work pretty fast.
Good luck
I have 5 .308 rifles…..
I guess you know my opinion…
I’ve shot moose, elk, deer etc mostly 1-2 shot kills.
I find 30-06 to have too much recoil for me- I’m an old man working hard at being grumpy…lol
308 is IMO cheaper to reload and I like the short action which even I can work pretty fast.
Good luck
with the prices of the components, if someone is just starting out it may be close to at par
I know if i had to start from scratch today I would probably be discourage by the costswith the prices of the components, if someone is just starting out it may be close to at par
Man I use one of those handheld Lee presses that looks like a friggin nutcracker, cheap dies, the cheapest primers, powders and projectiles I can haha. Definitely saves money. Thing is, practice ammos practice ammo.
Its usually an inch and a half (not 3 shot groups lol)
Find good premium ammo at the right sale price and its hard to really beat substantially yeah. But whatever case, some Staball or whatever, and a Speer bullet? Sure haha
Nice!
That looks/sounds like a quality press setup and if you got a good deal on it, even better!
Think I'll be working with your namesake soon and doing the opposite of what the other handloaders are doing. Throttling back. Worried the 110gr TTSX might be a bit too violent with a 3200+ fps starting load if it ends up being a 50-60 yard shot. Have read some good things about that bullet, and saw a video of it dropping a big pig at over 300 yards with no drama after being started from a relatively mild 308 load.
Exited the sucker too.
Between that and the 130, pretty much want for nothing but a much slower 175gr LRX kills fast and doesn't ruin much meat aound the shot while still well within its wheelhouse at 300-400 yards.
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You recorded/wrote down word for word this "conversation" a few years ago hoping that an opportunity would come up to post it here?
Sure, bub, sure.
"This one time... at band camp..."
Have you not accomplished enough on your own that you don't have to ride around on the coattails of your "friends"?
And what would any good 30-06 or 270 conversations be without falling to knees to worship at the altar of some long dead gun writer who got paid to write every endorsing word... Imagine if they had been paid to write about Remington 700's and the 7 RM cartridge instead? How much different would all of these fellers gun cabinets and cartridge arguments look today?
R.
I can dig up the email for you if you like . Lots of conversations have been recorded since 1998.
And of course it got a like from Joel.
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They were. And did. Lots. And lots more.
You seriously think that your 7MM Remington Magnum and the Remington 700 were overlooked?
You seriously don’t have a clue about what was written.They were. And did. Lots. And lots more.
You seriously think that your 7MM Remington Magnum and the Remington 700 were overlooked?
Keep slapping yourself on the back, bub!
R.
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I don’t?
Let me dig around for some photos of what I KNOW the 7mm Remington Magnum will do.
Proving further about not having a clue about what was written.I don’t?
Let me dig around for some photos of what I KNOW the 7mm Remington Magnum will do.
Definitely proving your insatiable need to pat yourself on the back tho!
Congratulations!
R.
