Shooting a 223 to a mile accurately..Video posted!!!

mysticplayer said:
Been a hoot guys and thanks for the 9500 views. Spring is here so let's see those rifles in action way out there.

Jerry
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Hey, what are you thanking us for, we should be thanking you! I have to admit that this has been the best thread and most inspiring thread I've ever read in over 6 years as a CGN'r (before the site even:eek:)
Shooting way out has allways been something i've wanted to do, and havent got around to it. I've had plenty of accurate rifles out to 400 or so, and some that didnt get the time they should have beyond that.

This thread has inspired me to build a 22 CF to see how far I can shoot. I know a mile is way out of my ability, and with a 222. (what Im planning on chambering again for) it just wont have the thump. But if I can make it to a K around MOA, I'll be happy as heck.
Here is what Im starting with.

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1975 700 BDL in 222.
Hogue aluminum chassis stock.
Besides that and a nice 2.2-2.3 lb trigger pull, its stock. and in the hogue with Factory Federal 40 gr ballistic tips I shot 3 separate groups that were all one ragged hole. (9 shots) The best part was, the third group was 2 different shooters.
I got the gun (Less hogue and trigger job) from a Gunnut on here that just about everyone has dealt with and the load data he gave me for a moly'd 55 gr ballistic tip, and and the loaded rounds show a tonne of potential.
But being as its a 1-14 twist, Im in need of a faster twist barrel to shoot up to 70 gr bullets.
Im going to sell my 22-250 Browning Abolt Varmint Stalker to fund the project
I have a 6.5-20 VariXIII (below on the rifle thats giong:D)
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Where do I start? (besides with a Savage:D, its not a remington Vs savage thing, I have owned more Savage Boltguns than most. :wave:)

1-9 twist for up to 70's, as I think that 70's might be about as big as I can go out of such a small case and still get adequate velocities.
The other thing I was thinking was 6mm-222. I dont know what it is, but for some reason, this thread I've been following for a while has got me hooked on this little case.
I thank you for the excellent read, but my wallet hates you:D
 
DarrylDB, I am glad this post has been helpful to you. That was the whole point. Get you guys excited about making noise and launching lead.

After the LR shoot, I really don't know when a bullet is going to fall flat on its face. Many I thought would not work, worked awesome. You never know until you make noise.

Take that rem out and push it beyond 800yds. Try for days with very little wind cause you are going to get pushed around HUGE!!! Work on getting rid of as much vertical in your loads as possible. Test at 200yds or 300yds. You want groups that look like sideways footballs.

If the load goes subsonic and stays stable, you just need a huge amount of elevation to reach out further. These light bullets are going to fall even harder then the 75/80gr Amax.

If you are rebarreling, I strongly suggest you get a 223. The 222R is a wonderful cartridge and I have owned several but the case capacity is just a smidge too small. A 75gr Amax at 2700fps is very useable but it is like increasing your shooting distance by another 150yds. It is tough enough to dope a 223 let alone a really slow one.

The 6-222 is a great and accurate wildcat but again, designed for shorter distances cause you have very little case capacity. The 6BR is a wonderful and capable rd.

Bang for the dollars spent is a fast twist Savage. They shoot well and there is little issue getting the 75gr Amax to work. This IS a mile capable rig.

Once you learn to dope the conditions, MOAish at 1000yds IS possible.

However, if you are looking for more accuracy, sticking a match pipe on your Rem or Savage will give you better performance and open the door to the 80gr Amax which is my favorite.

First thing is to push the rig you have now as far as it will go. Might surprise you. From there, you can build to your hearts delight. There really isn't any wrong answers and a new project is a pipe away.

Good luck and post your progress. nice rifles by the way

Jerry
 
dan belisle said:
If you're looking at a 6-222 look at the original 6x47. I have one, great shooter. And now that everyone sells Ruger 204 brass, cases are easy to get and form again. - dan
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I put one together by hand with a 222 case and a 65 gr Vmax, and it just looked cool. I was thinking with the small case capacity, I would be able to take advantage of the larger bore and a shorter barrel. It was one of those Pipe dreams so to speak. :D But, if I come across a 6mm barrel, who knows... an extra barrel never hurt no one. :D

Mystic,
Im lucky in that I have a few spots that are local to me that I can really wring out the distance with this rifle. I have 900 meters at my buddies farm, but the downfall is the wind. I was going to machine up a few shims at the shop to get some more elevation, one of the downfalls of that 6.5-20 is it doesnt have much with the 1 inch tube.
I've often thought also "why not just go with a 223?" But I keep looking at the two side by side, and I know it sounds like a very stupid answer, but I just like the look of the 222 better. It just holds some "coolness" factor to me that I've never had before. Its got a long neck, and gets up there (and quietly) with 7% less case capacity. I've had alot of hunting and varmint rifles in alot of different rounds, and nothing has bitten me like this little case. And I cant even explain why. One of the things that has kept me thinking the 222 is if it fails to make it out there, or fails to do so acurately, I can rechamber to a 223/ AI, 222mag, to wring out that extra velocity.

I do wholeheartedly agree that bang for the buck, you cant beat a savage rifle. I've said it for years since my main hunting rifle was a 111F in 300 win mag. Everything I pointed that gun at fell over dead. I've allways had a savage boltgun between myself and my dad since I've been hunting. Currently he has a 114U in 270 I bought him that is deadly accurate with 130 gr SST's. The reason I decided to use this rem is I got the stock for cheap, and I really like the hogue stocks. I had one on a 338WM Ruger with the full aluminum chassis also and it was extremely accurate, and a pussycat to shoot with 225 gr X's at 2750. The infatuation with the 222 just naturally said " do it on this"

I did see a LRPV barrel in 1-10 and 1-8 or 1-7(cant remember which) that i could have cut, rethreaded and rechambered and build a bastard child. :D
Who would claim victory, Savage for the barrel, or Remington for the action etc... You know what, I think Im going back over to the exchange to have a look. :sniper::D
 
If you really want to bury you bank account, have the 'smith put index marks on the action and barrels. Then buy an action/barrel vise. this way you can switch barrels and try a whole bunch of stuff.

The process is as easy as changing a light bulb.

If you go Savage, you can even change the bolt heads so that you can shoot all three families of cartridges off one action.

The most barrels I have heard someone have for switching out was over 100 pipes. How's that for an addiction????

Prethreaded and prechambered barrels are available for the Savage/Stevens so you can swap to your hearts delight.

A 222 WILL push the 75gr Amax in your bolt rifle as fast as a 223 out of an AR/HK SL8. This combo has no issue making it to 1000yds and will likely still be driveable at 1500yds.

Talk to your smith on throating LONG. With that wonderful long neck in the 222, you can push the Amax out to an OAL of around 2.5"- 2.6ish". There will be very little case intrusion so available case volume is not that far behind the 223.

In a 26 to 28" pipe, that 222 might just get to 2800fps. That's plenty fast to reach out to 1500yds. Go with at least a 8 twist so you have options on the 80gr Amax/Berger, 75gr BergerVLD's.

The lighter bullets should still work ok.

I love the 222R. Such a docile easy to load for case that can be superbly accurate. The 6mm version will not push a high enough BC bullet to be worth your investment. A 70ish gr 6mm bullet is very stubby vs a 75gr 22cal VLD.

What barrel did you just pick up?

If you are looking at a Savage barrel, they are not wide enough to install on a Rem action. The barrel/thread diameter is 1.125" or so which is simply too narrow to form a shoulder for the Rem action. This thread is too big for the standard Savage/Stevens actions.

Jerry

PS to shim you scope, it is best to use a one piece MOA base from EGW or Farrell. I just shimmed my EGW with 5 and 2.5 thou steel shim stock. A whole stack of them. Then you just put less in the other holes to keep things nice and level. Burris rings with inserts will be critical to fine tune your scope for max elevation useage. Check out my article for setting up your optics in my sig line. Will help give you the basics.
 
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Uh, Oh, oh Doesnt the LRPV actions use a larger dia barrel, and locking nut? Looks like I might be poohed on my bastard child :(
 
Yes, the LRPV diameter is larger then the standard action but it is not much larger. Problem is that the barrel nut will not mate to the Rem thread pattern so you may be able to get the barrel threaded but there is no shoulder to index on the action.

Unless you make a Rem thread nut. That is not out of the question and has certainly been done before.

So you might still be able to put this hybrid together.

Nothing some machining can't solve.

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
Yes, the LRPV diameter is larger then the standard action but it is not much larger. Problem is that the barrel nut will not mate to the Rem thread pattern so you may be able to get the barrel threaded but there is no shoulder to index on the action.

Unless you make a Rem thread nut. That is not out of the question and has certainly been done before.

So you might still be able to put this hybrid together.

Nothing some machining can't solve.

Jerry
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Yeah, but not worth the headache. I have too many other projects on the go:D
 
Wonderful thread. There is mention of trans sonic problems and speculation about a loss of stability.

This is a fairly well understood science. I do not understand it, but am familiar with some of the issues.

First, think about a gyro. It spins and has stability in space. A bullet has terrific rpm and thus has gyroscopic stability. There are degrees of stability. Just barely being stable RPM is called “S”. A good accurate bullet should have about 1.3xS.

The amount of rpm required to stabilize a bullet is a function of bullet length and air density. The faster a bullet travels, the more it compresses the air, so more RPM is required. But as it picks up RPM from the barrel, launching it faster automatically gives it more RPM.

As a bullet slows down, it needs less RPM to be stable, because the air is less dense, so as it moves downrange, it gains stability. A bullet with 1.3 at the muzzle might have 2 x S at 1000 yards. So, if you have enough twist to get accuracy at 100 yards, you have more than enough stability for long range.

You may have noticed TR shooters use 1:14 or 1:13 barrels. The object is to have just enough twist, to get the best results. More twist means more RPM and this actually degrades accuracy down range.

This is where it gets interesting. If you have ever played with a toy gyro, this will be easy to follow. If you have not, I will explain how a gyro works, first.

If you hold a spinning gyro and move your hand around, it will stay stable in space. That is, it will move on its axis so as to always be pointed the same way. If you force the gyro to turn, it reacts by turning on the other axis. i.e. if you turn it right, it will twist up.

When you fire a bullet, it is aimed upwards. It is a spinning gyro. Will it tip over, like an arrow, and strike point on – or will it come down, still pointing up the way it was launched? Depends.

If it was launched with more than 1.5 S, it will stay pointed up, and come down with the side exposed to airflow. It will shed velocity more quickly than a bullet that tips over and comes down point on. This is why long range target shooters use barrels with just barely enough twist.

BUT, a bullet that tips over, like an arrow, is still a gyro. When it rotates over, it also turns to the side. So it, too, shows some side to the airflow.
The farther a bullet goes, the more it slows and shows more and more side to the airflow. This is where accuracy starts to go south. The key to long range shooting is high velocity and BC and a low S.

The only way to control S (lower it) is to switch to a longer bullet.
Accuracy fails as the bullet goes too much sideways. Some bullets just happen to do this at about the same distance as they go subsonic. Going subsonic in its self is not a problem to accuracy. Many black powder match rifles launch supersonic bullets that soon go subsonic, and they carry on accurately.

If you mark targets at 1200 yards, you can see the 308 bullets making egg shaped holes. This is because the bullets are starting to be sideways to the line of flight. Some are eggshaped, with the bullet tip up. Others are egg shaped, with the tip pointed to the right. This is determined bytwist. Fast twist bulelets are coming down withhe bullet stillpointing up, so teh egg shape shows the point up. If the bullets are tipping over, the bullets are gyro precessed to the right.

The guys that really sweat this issue are the designers of nose fused munitions.
 
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