Guns Africa Dangerous game
- Thread starter mackillan
- Start date
Does this make sense?
Weatherby MARK V DELUXE MAGNUM · 28" Barrell with Accubrake
Caliber / Cal. - 378WM
Mfr. # DXM378WR8B · 103881
$2,469.95
I would like one with a flat trajectory. What sort of scope is acceptable? Is a Luepold Conquest sufficient? I dont want to be searching through a complex scope if a buffalo is charging. A Charlais bull experience was enough for me.
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Takujualuk
CGN Regular
- Location
- Whitehorse, Yukon
For me I'd want something faster handling than the big Weatherby for Lion. I'd go with a lighter Ruger in 375 with a shorter barrel.
TY any particular model? By fast do you mean faster bullet or more nimble gun?
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=7501&return=Y This seems to fit the bill. What sort of scope?
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=7129&return=Y
This would seem to fit the bill. What is the magazine? My ruger 204 has a top loading system. Is this a cylinder or a clip?
This would seem to fit the bill. What is the magazine? My ruger 204 has a top loading system. Is this a cylinder or a clip?
I wouldn't want a 28" barrel, or a .378 Weatherby. The velocities that the cartridge is capable of stress nearly every available bullet. The recoil of a .378 is rough, compared to many bigger cartridges. The rifle itself, well that would likely be OK if you want a 2 shot magazine. The muzzlebrake isn't a good idea when you are hunting surrounded by trackers and your PH, but could be removed.
I'd look into a .375 H&H in any of several quality brands. With a $4000 budget that should be no problem.
Trajectory means little on a DGR, nobody is going to let you take a long shot at a lion. A H&H will easily handle the other shots that a medium rifle will be called to make, with a trajectory nearly identical to a 30-06.
I'd look into a .375 H&H in any of several quality brands. With a $4000 budget that should be no problem.
Trajectory means little on a DGR, nobody is going to let you take a long shot at a lion. A H&H will easily handle the other shots that a medium rifle will be called to make, with a trajectory nearly identical to a 30-06.
Turkeyslayer 1300
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Russell, Ontario
I would go for a 450/400 Ruger #1 or a .458 lott M77 . A scope might not be a good idea when an angry cat wants to ruin you. If you really wanted to be cool you could go with a Winchester Custom shop .470 Capstick but that would be hard to find.
I have been looking into this more and more and my solution, based on many posts from the likes of dogleg, is a CZ 550 in 375 H+H (or 416 Rigby as a runner up), topped with a variable 1-4 power scope. Comes in WAY under you budget too which means more money for that pricey ammo
My choice would be a cz 550 or ZKK 602 in .458 Win. or .458 Lott or any other cal. you can get in these rifles either factory or custom, the minimum for Cape Buffalo should be .458 cal.and I wouldn't bother with a scope. A quick detach Leupold low power scope is a good option to have for other game that may not fight back.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Something to consider is that lions, like all members of the cat family, have highly attuned nervous systems that are very susceptable to shock. Normally I like moderate velocity and heavy bullets, but in the case of lions I would make an exception and go with something like a 260 gr Nosler Accubond or a 250 gr TSX loaded as fast you can make it go, should you decide to go with a .375. There are similar bullets available in .416 and .458.
A while back, A-Square had an interesting idea and made a family of bullets that were designed for different jobs, called the Bullet Triad. These bullets could shoot to the same point of aim with some judicious hand loading. The Dead Tough was a bonded lead core bullet with a heavy jacket and was marketed as the soft point that could handle the most difficult game, that could be suitably taken with a soft point. The Monolithic Solid was a mono-metal solid, much like the Barnes solids for thick skinned dangerous game. Then there was the Lion Load which was a big game bullet that was designed to function like a varmint bullet and grenade inside the lion. While the bullet was not made with a thin jacket, the core was made very hard so that under impact it would shatter. It wasn't long before stories of failures with this bullet began to surface. While it was dynamite on leopards and on broadside lion shots, a face on lion would cause the bullet to shatter on the frontal chest bones before sufficient penetration was realized. Given the close range experienced in lion hunting, this is a bad thing. While A-Square's "Lion Bullet" left something to be desired, the concept of a high velocity, fast opening bullet is correct, and the light weight for caliber premiums have much to offer in this regard.
A while back, A-Square had an interesting idea and made a family of bullets that were designed for different jobs, called the Bullet Triad. These bullets could shoot to the same point of aim with some judicious hand loading. The Dead Tough was a bonded lead core bullet with a heavy jacket and was marketed as the soft point that could handle the most difficult game, that could be suitably taken with a soft point. The Monolithic Solid was a mono-metal solid, much like the Barnes solids for thick skinned dangerous game. Then there was the Lion Load which was a big game bullet that was designed to function like a varmint bullet and grenade inside the lion. While the bullet was not made with a thin jacket, the core was made very hard so that under impact it would shatter. It wasn't long before stories of failures with this bullet began to surface. While it was dynamite on leopards and on broadside lion shots, a face on lion would cause the bullet to shatter on the frontal chest bones before sufficient penetration was realized. Given the close range experienced in lion hunting, this is a bad thing. While A-Square's "Lion Bullet" left something to be desired, the concept of a high velocity, fast opening bullet is correct, and the light weight for caliber premiums have much to offer in this regard.
This is correct in all details. Spend the money you save by not buying a Wounderby to get the action glass-bedded into the stock, trigger lightened, and the best scope you can afford.
Steve Troy the owner of TROY Industries is in Africa for the next two weeks on Safari, his choice became real easy when he optained some CZ 550 FS in 9.3 x 62, he was surprised at the value he received, and he remarked that action just needed a little work on it for quick follow up shots, his choice in optic was a Leupold variable in qd rings.
westcoaster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Central BC
I would recommend the 416 Rigby in a CZ 550 Magnum, with the field grade stock they run just over 1k brand new. A robust 1x4 scope if you want one. Then spend a bit of money with a reputable smith getting the action trued and cross bolts put in. Spend the $2000 you have left over on ammunition - either handloads or store boughts and practice, practice, practice...
IMO the various 416's and 458's will all do the job if you do yours. I bought the Rigby because it is a classic low pressure cartridge that one can load way up well past the factory ammo if one wished to and in all honesty because the Rigby - like the 375 H&H has panache and history. I'd pm BUM (big ugly man) on this site and ask him about his actual experience in Africa and his 416.
I do own a 416 Rigby in a CZ 550, it's a very nice rifle and I thought good value for what it cost me brand new, but it's a whole other world on the recoil side. I consider my 338 win mag a pussy cat and this took some getting used to, hence practice, practice, practice. I'm just passing my first 100 rounds and am starting to get fairly confident on shot placement both on the bench and standing, sitting, etc.
http://w.reloadbench.com/cartridges/416r.html
.416 Rigby
Introduced by the British firm of John Rigby & Co. in 1911, the .416 Rigby is one of the world's great old classic cartridges. Even so, Rigby's .416 did not enjoy the popularity it deserved among American hunters until affordable rifles chambered for it became available during the late 1980's. During 1988, Kimber announced its Model 89 African rifle in .416 Rigby, and Ruger followed suit with its Model 77 Magnum a year later. The author used the first Kimber rifle built in this caliber on safari in Zambia during 1988, and found it and its cartridge to be fine performers on large and potentially dangerous African Game.
The original British manufactured Kynoch factory load contained Cordite, a smokeless propellant which was reputed to be quite sensitive to extremes in temperature commonly encountered in tropical climates. For this reason, maximum chamber pressures for the .416 Rigby was held at 17 long tons or 38,080 pounds per square inch. Muzzle velocity with a 400 grain bullet was rated at 2375 fps. The A-Square and Federal factory loads presently available are loaded to similar chamber pressures and velocity levels.
The .416 Rigby is an excellent choice for hunting the largest African and Alaskan big game. It delivers a mighty blow up close, shoots relatively flat, hits hard at long ranges, and the high sectional density of its 400 grain bullet enables it to penetrate deeply. For maximum penetration on elephant and Cape Buffalo, bullets of solid construction such as the Hornady, the Speer African Grand Slam, the Barnes Super Solid, and the A-Square Monolithic Solid are powerful medicines. Excellent choices in expanding bullets of controlled expansion design for the .416 Rigby are the Barnes X-Bullet, the A-Square Dead Tough, the Speer African Grand Slam, and the Swift A-Frame. Due to the extreme large powder capacity of the .416 Rigby, it should be loaded with magnum primers and powders that fill its case to at least 90 percent charge density.
IMO the various 416's and 458's will all do the job if you do yours. I bought the Rigby because it is a classic low pressure cartridge that one can load way up well past the factory ammo if one wished to and in all honesty because the Rigby - like the 375 H&H has panache and history. I'd pm BUM (big ugly man) on this site and ask him about his actual experience in Africa and his 416.
I do own a 416 Rigby in a CZ 550, it's a very nice rifle and I thought good value for what it cost me brand new, but it's a whole other world on the recoil side. I consider my 338 win mag a pussy cat and this took some getting used to, hence practice, practice, practice. I'm just passing my first 100 rounds and am starting to get fairly confident on shot placement both on the bench and standing, sitting, etc.
http://w.reloadbench.com/cartridges/416r.html
.416 Rigby
Introduced by the British firm of John Rigby & Co. in 1911, the .416 Rigby is one of the world's great old classic cartridges. Even so, Rigby's .416 did not enjoy the popularity it deserved among American hunters until affordable rifles chambered for it became available during the late 1980's. During 1988, Kimber announced its Model 89 African rifle in .416 Rigby, and Ruger followed suit with its Model 77 Magnum a year later. The author used the first Kimber rifle built in this caliber on safari in Zambia during 1988, and found it and its cartridge to be fine performers on large and potentially dangerous African Game.
The original British manufactured Kynoch factory load contained Cordite, a smokeless propellant which was reputed to be quite sensitive to extremes in temperature commonly encountered in tropical climates. For this reason, maximum chamber pressures for the .416 Rigby was held at 17 long tons or 38,080 pounds per square inch. Muzzle velocity with a 400 grain bullet was rated at 2375 fps. The A-Square and Federal factory loads presently available are loaded to similar chamber pressures and velocity levels.
The .416 Rigby is an excellent choice for hunting the largest African and Alaskan big game. It delivers a mighty blow up close, shoots relatively flat, hits hard at long ranges, and the high sectional density of its 400 grain bullet enables it to penetrate deeply. For maximum penetration on elephant and Cape Buffalo, bullets of solid construction such as the Hornady, the Speer African Grand Slam, the Barnes Super Solid, and the A-Square Monolithic Solid are powerful medicines. Excellent choices in expanding bullets of controlled expansion design for the .416 Rigby are the Barnes X-Bullet, the A-Square Dead Tough, the Speer African Grand Slam, and the Swift A-Frame. Due to the extreme large powder capacity of the .416 Rigby, it should be loaded with magnum primers and powders that fill its case to at least 90 percent charge density.
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Those are all great choices but Mackillan hasn't mentioned his exprerience yet. What if he has hunted deer only all his life and he hasn't fired anything stouter than a .270? In that case wouldn't a nice M98 based custom in 9.3x62 be a better choice than a shoulder cannon? Relatively light recoil, good velocity and the availability of good bullets makes it a fine choice.
The Fabarm in 9.3x74 is also good.
For scope why not a pair of 2.5x Leupolds (one as a back-up) in EAW Claw mounts, plus a really good set of express sights.
The Fabarm in 9.3x74 is also good.
For scope why not a pair of 2.5x Leupolds (one as a back-up) in EAW Claw mounts, plus a really good set of express sights.
I would stay with a 375.
The 416's generate more recoil more than most can manage and still shoot accurately....At least without a whole lot of practice and determination.
If your budget allowed I would buy a matched set of both 375 and 416 bores. If you can handle the 416 like a pro by the time you go all the better. Most are smart just to go with the 375.
An open sighted double is a nightmare where it comes to precise bullet placement in poor light....Not so good for the budget either!
The 416's generate more recoil more than most can manage and still shoot accurately....At least without a whole lot of practice and determination.
If your budget allowed I would buy a matched set of both 375 and 416 bores. If you can handle the 416 like a pro by the time you go all the better. Most are smart just to go with the 375.
An open sighted double is a nightmare where it comes to precise bullet placement in poor light....Not so good for the budget either!
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