Guns Africa Dangerous game
- Thread starter mackillan
- Start date
Only game animals kudu etc
Frankfurt can be a breeze or it can be a nightmare depending on who you are flying with and how long your layover is there. Lufthansa definitely simplifies the process if you are catching the next direct flight to Windhoek or Joahannesburg but if you aren't, German officials can be challenging to deal with.
No problem, except that it isn't within the ATF's jurisdiction. They deal with people who want to stay within the US with weapons, not foreigners transiting through the US to another destination country.
You wouldn't be the first guy to get through without the proper paperwork.
We weren't willing to risk the forfeiture of our hunting rifles for the convenience of flying through the US. It was a bit longer to go through Germany. The beer was better, too.
PS - If you plan on leaving the transit area of the airport, make sure you have permits for Germany beforehand. Totally different kettle of fish.
Last edited:
No problem, except that it isn't within the ATF's jurisdiction. They deal with people who want to stay within the US with weapons, not foreigners transiting through the US to another destination country.
You wouldn't be the first guy to get through without the proper paperwork.
We weren't willing to risk the forfeiture of our hunting rifles for the convenience of flying through the US. It was a bit longer to go through Germany. The beer was better, too.
So what is it you have to get from who then? I fly with guns a fair amount and in all my dealings with ATF, customs, border and Homeland Security no one has ever mentioned anything else required. I've been asked to show my registration and I've been questioned if I'd taken care of the gun regulations at my destination, but nothing else. Could you please post a link to the required form and departments?
I know I just found out about the Canadian export permits for my guns, something that no one has ever mentioned either.
Thanks!
Ya, Canadian export permits are one of those little known jewels but fly out of the country without one and run into and over zealous custom's agent on return and you're in a world of trouble. Or worse yet, find yourself in a foreign country without one and the custom's agent there asks for it.
As for flying through the U.S., your information has always served me well Omega and sometimes a lot of digging is required to get the proper paperwork or answers and I'm sure without some of the nightmares you've been through that I wouldn't know what or who to ask for but eventually, you get the right answer. I was under the impression that guns going in and out of the U.S. did fall under ATF jurisdiction regardless of whether you where just connecting or not and that they were the agency to check with. Who else should I be consulting A-zone? I guess so far I've been one of those lucky guys that got through without the proper paperwork as I've consulted the ATF only and everytime and their answer is that for connecting flights no Form 6 required.
As for flying through the U.S., your information has always served me well Omega and sometimes a lot of digging is required to get the proper paperwork or answers and I'm sure without some of the nightmares you've been through that I wouldn't know what or who to ask for but eventually, you get the right answer. I was under the impression that guns going in and out of the U.S. did fall under ATF jurisdiction regardless of whether you where just connecting or not and that they were the agency to check with. Who else should I be consulting A-zone? I guess so far I've been one of those lucky guys that got through without the proper paperwork as I've consulted the ATF only and everytime and their answer is that for connecting flights no Form 6 required.
Last edited:
Look here: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131865
The form you need is a "DSP-61" and it's issued by the US State Department. I can't tell you "how" to get it as my efforts (and those of fellow hunter Neo) were for naught.
It turned out to be a Catch-22, so, after several weeks of effort, we cancelled our flight through the US and switched over to one through Frankfurt.
Look here for the US State Department material:
http://pmddtc.state.gov/docs/oas.pdf
And links to the Canadian material (question #10 in particular):
http://www.international.gc.ca/eicb/military/faq-en.asp#7
The form you need is a "DSP-61" and it's issued by the US State Department. I can't tell you "how" to get it as my efforts (and those of fellow hunter Neo) were for naught.
It turned out to be a Catch-22, so, after several weeks of effort, we cancelled our flight through the US and switched over to one through Frankfurt.
Look here for the US State Department material:
http://pmddtc.state.gov/docs/oas.pdf
And links to the Canadian material (question #10 in particular):
http://www.international.gc.ca/eicb/military/faq-en.asp#7
Last edited:
Unfortunately, travelling through the U.S. is a necessary evil when going to other parts of the world and trust me, it can be done through ATF just as Omega described.
The fellows that I plan on going to SA next April have now gone twice. Both times they flew out of Calgary on to Frankfurt, had a 10 hour lay over and then on to Jburg. Not a single hitch, they flew Luf. They brough rifles, ammo luggage and everything went without a single problem. By my experience, I have problems getting a parcel shipped to or out of the US due to what seems a major paranoia from US customs. IMHO avoiding the US seems good policy.
As a side note: this thread started out with the original poster discussing rifle and caliber choices. Now it has strayed over to legitations concerning travel. Not a problem, lots of good info to be had. But I think that as I have said before that it would be nice to see a topic section dedicated to African hunts, being that seemingly more Canadians are taking the plunge and going to Africa. How about a moderator stepping in and canvasing the powers to be at CGN to add and "African Hunt" category?
As a side note: this thread started out with the original poster discussing rifle and caliber choices. Now it has strayed over to legitations concerning travel. Not a problem, lots of good info to be had. But I think that as I have said before that it would be nice to see a topic section dedicated to African hunts, being that seemingly more Canadians are taking the plunge and going to Africa. How about a moderator stepping in and canvasing the powers to be at CGN to add and "African Hunt" category?
Last edited:
I think they recommend the 375 H&H because it is the largest caliber that most people can shoot well as well as ammo availability.
When going to bigger cartridges, I think they see alot of poor shooting and shot placement due to the recoil.
Whatever gun you buy, especially a factory gun these days, you should probably take it to a knowledgeable gunsmith to work it over so it is absolutely reliable in all aspects.
Guns which I would consider good cadidates would be the Winchester M70,
Cz 550, Brno 602, older Brownings built on the fn action and Mark X Whitworth's.
The ammo weight issue for two heavy rifles that require both softs and solids can be worked out. 5 Kilos gives me 3 boxes of .416 Rigby (400 grain) and 47 cartridges of .375 H&H (270 grain). The issue becomes which way to split it up so you don't run out of a particular type. Taking your wife along solves that problem nicely, she gets her own 5 Kilo's.
In my own example the .416 needs mostly solids and the .375 needs mostly softs, based on intended species. For a one rifle safari it would be difficult to beat a .375, with the standard caveat of being able to handle it.
Fully half of the Phs I've talked to and hunted with used .375s for their back-up rifles, and of those that didn't many had one for personal use. I've shot animals from maybe 20 pounds to over 3000 with the H&H. It works, and it can do it with one bullet. That still amazes me.
The PHs recomend the .375 to those that ask. It's simple enough, hunters with a rack full of big guns are likely to have their own ideas. If they are asking, they probably haven't shot the big stuff much or at all so direct them to the smallest legal one, and hope for the best. A more interesting question is to ask them what bullets you should bring.
In my own example the .416 needs mostly solids and the .375 needs mostly softs, based on intended species. For a one rifle safari it would be difficult to beat a .375, with the standard caveat of being able to handle it.
Fully half of the Phs I've talked to and hunted with used .375s for their back-up rifles, and of those that didn't many had one for personal use. I've shot animals from maybe 20 pounds to over 3000 with the H&H. It works, and it can do it with one bullet. That still amazes me.
The PHs recomend the .375 to those that ask. It's simple enough, hunters with a rack full of big guns are likely to have their own ideas. If they are asking, they probably haven't shot the big stuff much or at all so direct them to the smallest legal one, and hope for the best. A more interesting question is to ask them what bullets you should bring.
DSP 61 is for US companies and citizens who are import and exporting controlled goods. (military, some guns etc) One part deals with Joe Public taking his own gun hunting and then DSP 61 becomes his temporary export doc. Canadians need to have the 1042 series for our own temporary export of our hunting weapons and not only for the US but for anytime we leave Canada.
I took this off the AirCanada web site:
By the 5 kg limit, I imagine that this must include the box in which the ammo is stored. On one hand they state that it could be in a metal box, which would add considerable weight and reduce bullet count. But on the other hand it call for the "original inner carton". By that I take it that it must mean an actual factory ammo box, which in itself is much lighter than a steel container.
In summary, I would imagine that if one had some reloads, it would be best to have for example: Remington brass marked .375 H&H in a Remington ammo box of same caliber (even though rounds are reloaded).
By the 5 kg limit, I imagine that this must include the box in which the ammo is stored. On one hand they state that it could be in a metal box, which would add considerable weight and reduce bullet count. But on the other hand it call for the "original inner carton". By that I take it that it must mean an actual factory ammo box, which in itself is much lighter than a steel container.
In summary, I would imagine that if one had some reloads, it would be best to have for example: Remington brass marked .375 H&H in a Remington ammo box of same caliber (even though rounds are reloaded).
I've always flown with my hand loads in MTM plastic boxes. Only once was I asked to look at the box and when the security officer looked at the factory box ammo laying next to the MTM box he commented that the MTM was a better idea.
Yeah, so have I, but with "hunter" friendly AIRNORTH. This will be my first overseas hunting trip, so I simply want to cross all bridges without a hitch. This ammo business was topic on another thread, didn't mean to highjack this one.
Gitrdun
Use the MTM grey 20 round boxes.
Make a sticker for them that says
Gitrdun Custom Ammunition
Caliber ,375 H&H 300gr TSX, etc etc...
Put on some graphics and stuff if you want.
Load boxes with ammo, seal with some scotch tape.
Makes it look official, and probably a fun project, too.
I once had a Westjet guy look at my 100 round MTM box a little funny, but he eventually let it pass. If I had put some stickers on it, he wouldn't have really thought twice.
Use the MTM grey 20 round boxes.
Make a sticker for them that says
Gitrdun Custom Ammunition
Caliber ,375 H&H 300gr TSX, etc etc...
Put on some graphics and stuff if you want.
Load boxes with ammo, seal with some scotch tape.
Makes it look official, and probably a fun project, too.
I once had a Westjet guy look at my 100 round MTM box a little funny, but he eventually let it pass. If I had put some stickers on it, he wouldn't have really thought twice.
+
WTF are you talking about.....??? Your post is about dangerous game like lions in Africa, then you say you are only going to shoot game like Kudu. Are you sure that you know what you want or what you are going to do??? For once, TodBartel is right, you do need a note.
