Fastest action rifle...

Well, old buddy, I don't know if it is a "stupid argument" but it might be one that has no answer, other than the one that has been provided here a few times........it all comes down to the person operating the firearm and what they are comfortable with.

Hell, I saw our friend "senior" hunting two years ago with a golf bag full of single-shot muzzle-loaders and I reckon he would have been just as fast with them as he would be with his semi. :dancingbanana: IF he had to shoot that fast! :rolleyes: But we never did find out..........:(

Doug
 
I did take a single barrel muzzle loading shotgun out one year. Second shot? Well, there are the stupid deer.
Golf bag full? well, he was better off than me, if I needed a second shot.
I was prepared mind you, had greased wads in a tube, shot in pre-measured containers etc. But, no deer would ever stand still for all the movements required to do it. I never timed it, but I think the best I could do would have been about 30 seconds.
Never got the opportunity. Traded it off on the 44-40. It has been effective.
 
John Y Cannuck said:
What has range got to do with action speed?
The 44-40 was just a low recoil example I picked to support my argument on recoil affecting speed on target.
My brother can operate his Winchester Defender at blistering speed, it sounds like one continuous shot when he does it, however, the first one is the only one with any hope of being on target.

If you took a pump gun in 44-40, they used to exist, and then a lever gun, in the same cartridge, yes, the pump would IMO win.
However, if the pump gun is in 30-06, and the lever in 44-40, it ain't gonna happen, if the two rifles must stay on the paper.
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In my opinion action speed is one important factor in aimed shots. Stock configuration, sighting systems are others. As distance increases a scope is an aid to faster sight acquisition. Sorry but a 44-40 in the more common actions it is chambered in is not conducive to rapid shooting at extended ranges. I have shot a good many animals at close and far ranges and am basing my comment on my experiences and those of others who I have stood beside while hunting.

I do not use either a pump or lever but have hunted with some who do.When shots are often at 200 or 300 yards and sometimes 400 plus I want a good well stocked and scoped bolt action or even single shot as my B 78 .They are faster for follow up shots providing the stock is matched to the shooter. When properly stocked the cheek never leaves the sweet spot and cycling the action is completed without moving the gun. I have seen bullet impact when using a properly stocked gun up to 30-06 in power. And the action was cocked and ready to go.

Have you takena 400 plus yard shot with your 44-40? And connected?
 
sgt.rock said:
I love my remington pump 30-06, and yes I have required two shots sometimes to kill things. Especially when I used basic factory ammo. My gun just didn't like the easily available stuff from Cambodian tire and Walmart.
And I thought that in some provinces, you could get 2 or more deer on a licence. I know that here in Yellowknife, I can get 2 caribou with my licence and 2 seasons ago the number was 5. So the pump was nice when you shot the "big , choice bull" first , then had 4 more tags to fill on running animals.
The Remington has a free floated barrel too, and is just as accurate as most of my bolt guns. The only thing I regret is that once you and 3 buddies kill 20 animals, thats a sh*t load of animals to skin, gut, and quarter.
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Lucky!

I've never had caribou, does it taste as good as moose? I've heard it is similar.
 
Murf said:
I
Have you takena 400 plus yard shot with your 44-40? And connected?
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On bigredds silhouette range, I connected at 300, with a receiver sight and off hand at that.

You are welcome to your opinion Murf, I just don't share it.
My hunting here is pretty much all short range, mostly well under one hundred yards. Speed of action and recoil are much more important under those circumstances in getting a second shot. Stock configuration is important too, and the short carbine stocks typically used on the average levergun are a big aid in staying on target when it's running, bounding up and down, appearing and disappearing and fifty feet from you.
Typically, if we get a long shot, we've got all the time in the world to shoot.
 
What it comes down to is we are playing different versions of the same game. In your style of hunting a lever should work very well for someone like yourself who has put in the time and effort to become familiar.

In my version of the game an iron sighted lever shooting a low velocity round is not nearly as good a choice. We also get occasional close shots and with a proper stock design the effects of recoil from a .270 , .308 or 30-06 is manageable. I can see the difference even with the Rem pump between older low stocked models and the newer ones with a higher comb. My son shoots the old .303 I used back 40 years ago. It was scoped and a block, similar to the old sniper versions was added. It makes for very fast repeat shots whereas before the block it meant searching for the scope view and a considerable delay in sight acquisition. I find proper sight alignment is one of the major factors in repeat shots.

I had an H&R Handi with barrels for 45-70 and 30-30 that I restocked for scope use. Despite the need to drop the gun to reload it could be loaded, aimed and fired quickly. A part of this was familiarity with break actions from using an O/U shotgun but also important was a stock designed for me and scope use. When it hit my shoulder I was seeing the full view and it was pointing where I was looking.

300 yards off hand at any silhouette esp with a reciever sight is a very good shot. Which animal? Any idea of hold over that was needed?
 
Crazy.kayaker said:
if you need a second shot go and spend some money on a few boxes and learn to hit the target where you want to the first time. I've yet to start hunting just got my permit info today and getting My Hunting Number tomorrow but even I know you want 1 shot 1 kill. But if you want the quickest action get a lever. If you practice you don't need to remove the butt plate from your shoulder.
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OK then Mr.Expert with zero kills under you're belt.:jerkit:In the "real world" a double-lunged moose can go a helluva long way if you don't knock him off his feet with the first shot,which can mean the difference between a relatively easy recovery or a looooooong night in the woods humping meat out of a swamp.I've been using a 30-06 pump for deer,bear and moose for close to 30 years.Rarely do I need more than 1 shot,but with moose especially,I keep shooting 'til they fall over.Sometimes they just don't realise they're already dead on their feet.

FWIW,in a duck blind where I began my hunting career,I could cycle a pump almost as fast as my bud's semi,usually more accurately,and more reliably,which is why I went with a pump rifle when I got old enough for big game.BTW,76/760/7600s are well known for bolt like accuracy as well with their free-floated barrels and solid locking lugs.Mine shoots MOA with almost any and all factory ammo that I've tried over the years.
 
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Doug said:
back to fogducker...........nope, he was in my camp, and he is on this thread, just ask him!

Doug
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Don't believe a word he says :rolleyes:
Like I could afford a golf bag full of SSs!
& what in heel would I be doing with a golf bag!
Although I always though a golf club would be handy at setting out little white targets at the range :D


grinrgrn: You really got to wonder what a guy that "I've yet to start hunting just got my permit info today" could intelligently add to this thread :confused:
 
Murf said:
300 yards off hand at any silhouette esp with a reciever sight is a very good shot. Which animal? Any idea of hold over that was needed?
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I was having ahell of a time developing loads for the rifle at the time. I had a few left, and dumped them down range at .. I think it's a deer he has set at that range, might be a goat, don't remember. It was at least a year ago that I was down there.
Chilly Willy had just painted them, and was bugging me about mucking up his paint job.
Hold over, was just a guess.
The 44-40, like the much larger 45-70, has a pretty high trajectory, but, still can kill at surprising distance. The trick is hitting the target in the right place.
I wouldn't use the little rifle for more than 100 yards in the field. Not fair to the game.
Have you ever read the Sandy Hook trials with the 45-70?
The 45-70 at two miles?
If you want to, let me know, and I'll post it.
 
Yeah I have read that report. What I found amazing to read was a report on long range 45-70 shooting. If I am not mistaken the mid range trajectory for 1000 yards is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 51 feet. Imagine having someone open the curtains in a bottom apartment so you could aim and having the bullet travel over a five story building.

I have touched a buffalo silly wet at 785 yards repeatedly with a 45-70 in a short barreled H&R Handi rifle. My sights weren't really up to it but there was a handy dark patch on a hillside beyond. After a couple sighters I dialled in and rang it quite frequently. We had a two way radio near the target with the mike taped open. Four seconds from shot to radio "ping" then another four seconds for the actual sound to arrive.

At our local range one evening after a silhouette match the boys with long range sights went after a buff at 1100 meters. One guy made about 7 consecutive hits before boredom set in.
 
That can be fun, there's a guy over at leverguns that shoots cast bullets at the 1000 yard buffalo, with the 30-30 in I think a peep sighted Marlin levergun, and does so consistently. Known distances and non-moving targets, have advantages.
I guess we're way off topic. Best not hijack any further.
 
On my last trip out we had a black bear standing on the side of the road at just over 400 yards.

I was carrying my 20" barreled Puma M92 chambered in 454 Casull and was loaded with 300gr Hornady XTP-Mag's @ 1950fps.

My buddy that was with us at the time says to me do you think you can drop a bullet about 5 feet to the left of him.

So I swing up the little rifle guess the drop/wind drift and fired bullet hit almost exactly 5 feet to the left of the bear which decided that it was time to jump off the road a few seconds after the shot.

Yes I had 2 witnesses there and both were watching the hit thru binoculars.

I shoot this rifle a lot out to the 210 meter gong at the club so it wasn't much to guess for the longer distance oh and the shot was free handed.

there's a guy over at leverguns that shoots cast bullets at the 1000 yard buffalo, with the 30-30 in I think a peep sighted Marlin levergun, and does so consistently. Known distances and non-moving targets, have advantages.
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That's not my good buddy Cowboy Tutt is it...

If it is I've known him for several years now.
 
I believe that tests have shown that the fastest action is the double or express rifle, followed by the auto, pump and lever. The difference among the auto, pump and lever, however, is so small as to be inconsequential.

My advice is to buy whatever "feels" best, since you'll learn to use it efficiently because of that comfort. This advice doesn't encompass bolt actions however.:)
 
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