Shot a Grizzly

[alremkin]

Hm, ok in that pic it looks more the size of a beef cow. I'd guess it's similar in size to the bear at the information center in Houston, 975lbs live weight. According to the story they were able to load it whole into a truck and get it weighed

That's the exit wound we see there on it's left side? It went 75 yards after being hit with your 300 gr Nosler.

It will be interting to see what it scores.

 

[Camp Cook]

We actually stopped and checked out the bears in Houston and the Smithers Airport on our way out to visit Gibbs505.

I feel that my bear was bigger than the one in Houston and around the same size but possibly a little smaller as the one at the airport.

Their shapes were a bit different though my bear had a body shaped more like interiors bears than coastal bears.

I really don't like posting pictures like this but here is a photo of the exit hole and where it hit the leg.

I was impressed with the performance of the 375RUM and the performance of the Partitions my concern with the Partition is that if the shot had not been exactly where I wanted it or if it had been a lot closer it may not have performed good enough.

That is why I am now thinking of swithcing to a 300gr Swift A-Frame now.

 

[Rogers]

Awesome story, nice bear, GOOD JOB!

 

[alremkin]

I really don't like posting pictures like this but here is a photo of the exit hole and where it hit the leg.

Well my intent is not to glorify the blood and guts, and gore of killing one of God's more magnificent creatures, but it isn't everyday or even every year we get to look at what it takes to bring down a brute like this. Imagine NOT having your dog or 375 with you while camping and having this thing come @03:00 to check you out. I've seen a pic here on gunnutz of a griz standing on a small tent in the flash of a camera.

Looking at the ballistics charts I'd guess your 300 gr Nosler was doing between 2200 and 2300 fps when it hit the bear. Do you have something against Barnes ### all copper bullets that your first choice would be to the Swift A-Frame as an alternate?

I bought 250 of 350 gr Barnes ###, for a life-time supply when I bought my 416 Remington Safari, as well as 250 of 350 gr Speers for practice. What would have happened had you hit the near side shoulder bone? Also you ranged the spot where the bear was to be between 230-250 yards. What about the camping situation where the range could be single digit feet?! The bear traveled 75 yards after being hit, instead he could have chosen to whack someone a few times before expiring.

I can see why some people go for rifles like the 505 Gibbs and 500 A-Square and I considered the CZ 505 before I bought my 416. What I liked about the 416 Remington Safari is the Stainless 22" Barrel with the barrel band so it hangs low on my shoulder in the bush and be short for easy handling. I haven't checked out the stock butt end to see if it's hollow yet so that I could add some lead shot if the balance and weight would be better.

You've done a good job of presenting the information and excitement in getting an animal that might make the book, something I think most here at gunnutz would like to do sometime. It's both fitting and proper to discuss bullet performance especially in this case and I think we should go ahead and "pull the wings off the fly" so to speak detailing bullet performance because this can affect all of us as long as we can do so scientifically and not get into wanton blood lust.

 

[bone-collector]

I think bulet preformance has been discused to death more than that bear is dead on CGN maybe look though the threads

most people go for shoulders on grizz just to eliminate there mobility as well and @ 250 yards that bullet would have destroyed that shoulder

and do you have any idea how many grizz have been shot with 7mm/300wm/338 etc? and practacing with different bullets than you use is a good way to get in trouble IMHO!

 

[The Cold Lake Kid]

WOW!
Just WOW!
And congratulations on the great bear.

 

[Demonical]

alremkin you are talking like the only lethal bullet in existence in the TSX. Get a grip man...

 

[bone-collector]

well in all fairness D there is to be something said for barnes bullets in smaller caliber rifles, we are discussing 375s and up I realy dont think it matters quite as much anymore once you breech 250 grains+

lets ask that moose again what he thought of big bore rifles?

oh and PSSSSSSST gods creatures have there place....ON MY BBQ!
OH and blood dosnt bother me its a HUNTING forum theres bound to be a bit from time to time

 

[alremkin]

I think bulet preformance has been discused to death more than that bear is dead on CGN maybe look though the threads

I was impressed with the performance of the 375RUM and the performance of the Partitions my concern with the Partition is that if the shot had not been exactly where I wanted it or if it had been a lot closer it may not have performed good enough.

That is why I am now thinking of swithcing to a 300gr Swift A-Frame now.


Bone-collector: It's because CC raised the question himself that I thought it was fitting to bring up the subject in this thread. Also, because I'm a bit of a gun-nut I'm always interested to hear of special usues of bullets like this in taking what looks to be a trophy bear.

I have no intention of belittling the data base on bullet performance here at CanadianGunNutz; however, I'm of the opinion that within the context of this thread it bares repeating.



most people go for shoulders on grizz just to eliminate there mobility as well and @ 250 yards that bullet would have destroyed that shoulder

Probably, there's also the spine and brain shots for instant kills. Of course the brain shot may destory the skull and some express concern that bullets can bounce off the skull.

and do you have any idea how many grizz have been shot with 7mm/300wm/338 etc? and practacing with different bullets than you use is a good way to get in trouble IMHO!

I'd guess that many more griz have been killed with 338 and smaller rifles than rifles larger than that; however, if I were hunting griz as my primary species I'd follow the old African maxium that dangerous game requires a minimum 40 caliber magnum rifle. I won't hunt anything in griz country with anything less than my 338 Win Mag.

I appreciate your concern for my practing with different bullets than those with which I intend to hunt, but I've got 2 rifles, 338/378 and 416, I haven't sighted-in or done barrel break-in. I haven't counted them, but I've probably got a dozen different type of 338 bullets and I'll sight-in and do barrel break-in with some old light bullets with a light powder charge, the low end of the range in the manual. Once that is done I'll start load development with my hunting bullets. Since I didn't already have a large supply of 416 bullets I bought some cheaper Speer 350 gr to sight-in and do barrel break-in before doing load developement with 350 gr ### Barnes with which I intend to hunt and of course during practice I'll note the differences between the bullets and I do expect some.

I hope we can keep this thread focused on CC's hunt because it's not common for a trophy bear to shot and have such a good write up and picutres. I also like the way CC goes afield, no shotage guns! When they went back the next day they used their closeup thumpers. I think one would be hard pressed to find a hunter who didn't think a 375 Ultra loaded with 300 gr Noslers was a good load for griz and my questions here were meant to bring out what CC thinks about this.

 

[alremkin]

alremkin you are talking like the only lethal bullet in existence in the TSX. Get a grip man...

Well not quite, but I do think the Barnes ### are arguably the best bullets and I wondered why CC's first choice would be to go to the Swift A-Frame instead of the ###?

 

[Demonical]

well in all fairness D there is to be something said for barnes bullets in smaller caliber rifles, we are discussing 375s and up I realy dont think it matters quite as much anymore once you breech 250 grains+

lets ask that moose again what he thought of big bore rifles?

oh and PSSSSSSST gods creatures have there place....ON MY BBQ!
OH and blood dosnt bother me its a HUNTING forum theres bound to be a bit from time to time

BC that's one of my favorite pics of all time.

Well not quite, but I do think the Barnes ### are arguably the best bullets and I wondered why CC's first choice would be to go to the Swift A-Frame instead of the ###?

Yes that is a point that you can argue, because I consider the Hornady Interlock, arguably the best bullet going. Dollar for dollar, you can't beat the Hornady Interlock. If you are a high velocity freak, then they may not be the best choice. So the caliber and cartridge/bullet velocity are critical when choosing the bullet. Even though I have no personal experience with Barnes bullets, I believe that they are best suited at high velocities. I do not shoot anything that can be considered high velocity, so I don't feel I need 'em.

The Barnes X bullets are just another option. I have never used them. A main reason is for years they have been over-priced. I pointed out in another thread, that the current price lists from Wholesale Sports have the Barnes TSX cheaper then the Nosler Partition, for like the first time I know of. If they remain cheaper then the NP's then I may finally consider them.

My favorite bullets for years and years have been Nosler Partitions. IMHO they remain the bullet standard that everything else is compared against.

There are lot's of really good bullets, if money is no object. For this thread we are talking .375 caliber and up. Trophy Bonded Bear Claws are as good as anything; Swift A-Frame are really good; Northforks and Woodleighs are also fabulous. In the larger calibers the partition is moved forward on the NP's by the way. So the Noslers are also in the discussion.
I know from reading a lot of stuff about African dangerous game hunting, that the Barnes X is a very good bullet on the Cape Buffalo and such.

 

[bone-collector]

if I were hunting griz as my primary species I'd follow the old African maxium that dangerous game requires a minimum 40 caliber magnum rifle.

you had better go back and look at the minimuns again

I won't hunt anything in griz country with anything less than my 338 Win Mag.

so you hunt mule deer with a 338 were you live?

it's not common for a trophy bear to shot and have such a good write up and picutres.

there has been a fair amount on here over the years

my questions here were meant to bring out what CC thinks about this.

well its pretty certain Camp wouldnt have pulled the trigger if he felt the firearm wasnt nuff gun to do the job

I do think the Barnes ### are arguably the best bullets

and a question many will ask so I will throw it out first, how many dangerous game animals have you shot to test this theory? I personaly find them finicky and stuborn to load compaired to other bullets and when you look on a global scale are not mentioned very often, yes they can be a great bullet but far from top of the line in many cases

 

[bone-collector]

BC that's one of my favorite pics of all time.

well D that is 1 of my favorites as well, I sit back and chuckle at it and ask myself WTF was I thinking shooting that donkey with a cannon like that and at 6 bucks a bullet

but there was no room for argument hes dead haha

 

[Camp Cook]

Alremkin basically I have never really had good luck in the accuracy department with Barnes bullets.

They work exceptionally good out to 100 yards for me but after that my groups start to open up more than any other bullet I have ever used and I have used them in my 6mm-284, 270 Weatherby, 280 Rem, 308 Norma Mag, 300RUM and a couple of 45-70 rifles and other than the 45-70's I have always had the same poor accuracy results once I past the 100yard target.

Now for me anyway the thing with 375 caliber rifles is that they shoot bullets of the same bullet weight basically to the same point of impact, its this way with every 375 that I have ever had anything to do with so maybe I wouldn't have an issue with the Barnes bullets but I am now tired of spending big bucks on a bullet that has a track record with me that I am not overly happy with.

bone-collector "WOW"

 

[alremkin]

you had better go back and look at the minimuns again

I'm not refering to the current minmums which I think is 375minmum for dangerous game in most places, but the OLD maxim of using >40 caliber for dangerous game.

so you hunt mule deer with a 338 were you live?

Yes, I don't hunt deer much, but both bucks I've shot were with my 338.



there has been a fair amount on here over the years

While I've been a member here for a while it's only recently that I've been following the posts much.



well its pretty certain Camp wouldnt have pulled the trigger if he felt the firearm wasnt nuff gun to do the job

Agreed.



and a question many will ask so I will throw it out first, how many dangerous game animals have you shot to test this theory? I personaly find them finicky and stuborn to load compaired to other bullets and when you look on a global scale are not mentioned very often, yes they can be a great bullet but far from top of the line in many cases

Hm, well first we'd have to define "dangerous game", for the sake of this conversation I'd include wolves, cougars, black and grizzly bears in that group. In that group I've shot 4 bears. Two with a 175gr 7mm from my BAR , used the 7mm bcause I wasn't in griz country, and two with my 338 one with a 275 gr speer old style and one with a 250 gr Sierra.

I haven't shot any animals with Barnes bullets of any description. My choice was totally based on what I've read and that I also like the idea of the bullet being made of one type of material so the bond between the two materials can't separate because it doesn't exist.

 

[alremkin]

BC that's one of my favorite pics of all time.






I pointed out in another thread, that the current price lists from Wholesale Sports have the Barnes TSX cheaper then the Nosler Partition, for like the first time I know of.

I checked this and you're right.

In my 338 Win Mag I couldn't find an accurate load for the 250 gr Nosler, but the 210 gr Nosler was my second most accurate bullet. I shot a mountain goat at about 40' with the 210gr nosler and both the entrance and exit holes were big enough to put a small coffee cup through. I used to have Kleingunther in 7mm Rem Mag that shot the 160 gr Nosler Partitions very well, but it shot almost everything well, sorry I sold it.

 

[alremkin]

Alremkin basically I have never really had good luck in the accuracy department with Barnes bullets.

They work exceptionally good out to 100 yards for me but after that my groups start to open up more than any other bullet I have ever used and I have used them in my 6mm-284, 270 Weatherby, 280 Rem, 308 Norma Mag, 300RUM and a couple of 45-70 rifles and other than the 45-70's I have always had the same poor accuracy results once I past the 100yard target.


Since my 416 will be my close up bear gun I don't plan to shoot beyond 200 yards with it and am more concerned about<100'. I plan to bring it with me in my canoe up here when I'm not hunting for protection. In another thread "Calum" had a pic of three tents lined up and an adult griz pushing down on the middle one. I don't know the out-come of that event, but prefer not to be in that position a dog would help a lot there. When I backpacked with friends in griz country we'd position our tents facing each other so if a griz came at one guy another would likely have a clear shot. People often forget the adventure in hunting.

 

[bone-collector]

well we cant include wolves/black bears and cougars in that, yes they can be dangerous are they classed as dangerous game to hunt no, and people were you live hunt them with 243s and 308s
Its quite obvious you have a fear of bears, thats fine no bashing on that from me, BUT dont let it run you, Im not sure how long you have been in the lakes area but in 36 years I have only recently started seeing grizz and still not a daily routine, seeing I spend 10 months a year in the bush I can pretty much say your chances here are pretty good not to run into one, mind you we have had a few attacks in the past couple of years, but again as said in other threads what does it matter what caliber rifle you have if your not trained to use it on bears or cant get to it!

as for the bullets what happens to a solid style bullet when it hits flesh? it sure dosnt expand like a partition style and break a pile of organs and bones.

and YES Camp I found the same issue with the barnes finicy to load and tended to wander in accuracy at distances, and being a form of a solid with minimal expantion (compaired to nosler/speer etc) you need to have that little better shot placment IMHO

oh and that donkey Camp was a 510Gr 458 slug @ 25 yards

 

[Foxer]

Barnes are great bullets, there's no doubt. But they're not the be-all end-all, especially not in slower non-uber-speed cartridges.

For example, they don't give me a lot better performance out of my 30-06, but the 168's do allow me to get the same sort of performance i'd expect out of 180 grain bullets with a little flatter trajectory and range.

 

[todbartell]

I personaly find them finicky and stuborn to load compaired to other bullets and when you look on a global scale are not mentioned very often, yes they can be a great bullet but far from top of the line in many cases

if you have a problem with the accuracy of the Barnes bullets, you should email Federal Ammo Company, because they're the ones who loaded them for you

factory ammo is for weenies!