Norinco or Springfield ???

For those that know me, I have a rather large assortment of M1As/M14s/M305. I detest the "this is better than that" arguements however I would like to offer some observations. Firstly on the Norincos. I have had some that shot great and require little to no work, I have also had some that were a complete mess and required a serious amount of work. Do I like the M305s or M14s...sure but I don't think there the end all. If your criteria for performance is the ability to go bang, they are great value. Call me old fashion but I like fit and finish vice file and hammer. I have had some of the roughest Norincos with sharp edges and serious rough spots. But this not what your getting them for. If your concept is to add USGI parts to make it better, in some cases you can sink some serious money into Norinco.....but again, it depends what you want and do with it. The cast vs forged arguement is mute as very very few shooters on CGN would ever notice the difference or shoot the volume necessary to notice. I think some just like to argue with partial information or use there single experience as indicative of all.

Some will complain of "all" the problems with Springfields. They have an incredible amount of M1As in circulation in the US and Canada. I have never had a problem with mine in over 10 years, neither has the two M1A gurus I learned from who have shot with them for significantly longer. Your mileage might vary but I don't read to many posts here about those terrible Springfields....

Are the Norincos OK? Sure, I don't mind them but I do prefer the fit and finish of the Springfields and enjoy knowing I have a warranty. I have a number of Springfields and have never had to take advantage of the warranty and have shot a great deal out of the rifles.

Reference the SOCOM comments on accuracy. Interestingly enough, I have two of them, one in a Vltor stock, the second in a SAGE and they both shoot excellently. On one occasion the SAGE equiped rifle shot MOA with Port surplus. If anything I have been extremely happy with the rifles. If only they were not restricted!

So I guess if you wanted to argue there is plenty to do but at the end of the day, if your happy that is what matters. Me personally, I prefer the Springfields. Doesn't mean I hate the Norcs, but just prefer the clean lines and the lack of drill marks and hammer dents that make the Norc so attractive...

So I think everyone needs to lighten up. It is more important that your happy with your purchase and actually get out there and shoot the rifle. I know a number of vocal shooters who bearly shoot them, prefering to talk about them....

If money is tight, then a Norinco represents good value. If money is not tight, you might prefer the options available with Springfield. Your call.
 
Morpheus32 said:
For those that know me, I have a rather large assortment of M1As/M14s/M305. I detest the "this is better than that" arguements however I would like to offer some observations. Firstly on the Norincos. I have had some that shot great and require little to no work, I have also had some that were a complete mess and required a serious amount of work. Do I like the M305s or M14s...sure but I don't think there the end all. If your criteria for performance is the ability to go bang, they are great value. Call me old fashion but I like fit and finish vice file and hammer. I have had some of the roughest Norincos with sharp edges and serious rough spots. But this not what your getting them for. If your concept is to add USGI parts to make it better, in some cases you can sink some serious money into Norinco.....but again, it depends what you want and do with it. The cast vs forged arguement is mute as very very few shooters on CGN would ever notice the difference or shoot the volume necessary to notice. I think some just like to argue with partial information or use there single experience as indicative of all.

Some will complain of "all" the problems with Springfields. They have an incredible amount of M1As in circulation in the US and Canada. I have never had a problem with mine in over 10 years, neither has the two M1A gurus I learned from who have shot with them for significantly longer. Your mileage might vary but I don't read to many posts here about those terrible Springfields....

Are the Norincos OK? Sure, I don't mind them but I do prefer the fit and finish of the Springfields and enjoy knowing I have a warranty. I have a number of Springfields and have never had to take advantage of the warranty and have shot a great deal out of the rifles.

Reference the SOCOM comments on accuracy. Interestingly enough, I have two of them, one in a Vltor stock, the second in a SAGE and they both shoot excellently. On one occasion the SAGE equiped rifle shot MOA with Port surplus. If anything I have been extremely happy with the rifles. If only they were not restricted!

So I guess if you wanted to argue there is plenty to do but at the end of the day, if your happy that is what matters. Me personally, I prefer the Springfields. Doesn't mean I hate the Norcs, but just prefer the clean lines and the lack of drill marks and hammer dents that make the Norc so attractive...

So I think everyone needs to lighten up. It is more important that your happy with your purchase and actually get out there and shoot the rifle. I know a number of vocal shooters who bearly shoot them, prefering to talk about them....

If money is tight, then a Norinco represents good value. If money is not tight, you might prefer the options available with Springfield. Your call.
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+1

Norinco's offer a fantastic budget gun, with which one can build a capable if not pretty rifle.

Springfields may offer pretty finishes and some are build very well, particularly the older ones which also used USGI parts.

Regarding some of the newer ones, some have turned out 'less' than one might expect for the money....and the parts come from undisclosed factories......

...if one were buying brand new and wanted to spend the extra money, I'd venture to the LRB corner for M14-type rifles.

In particular LRB offers that M25 integral mount receiver for those building wild space guns....
 
aka-jdub said:
if you suggested your socom was shooting 6moa on the m14 forum i frequent they'd tell you to either 1. check your eyes or 2. check the gun. bs numbers you got there missy.

ps. you'd buy a vespa over a harley too i bet.
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Well, I think harleys are overpriced, poorly engineered and underperforming...I own fast bikes with more torque and more horsepower than anything harley builds so they don't interest me any more than vespas do.

But as I said, don't take my word for it. Why not go over to the firing line and read for a while instead of just assuming my numbers are BS?

That's my experience with socoms and I am confident saying that it is fairly representative on the basis of the recorded performance I have seen.

I have nothing against springfield, I just wouldn't spend my money that way. I don't object if other people want to...I don't object if people want to own harleys either. But I am interested in performance first and cachet last, so I am quite happy with my japanese bikes and chinese M14s.
 
misanthropist said:
Well, I think harleys are overpriced, poorly engineered and underperforming...I own fast bikes with more torque and more horsepower than anything harley builds so they don't interest me any more than vespas do.

But as I said, don't take my word for it. Why not go over to the firing line and read for a while instead of just assuming my numbers are BS?

That's my experience with socoms and I am confident saying that it is fairly representative on the basis of the recorded performance I have seen.

I have nothing against springfield, I just wouldn't spend my money that way. I don't object if other people want to...I don't object if people want to own harleys either. But I am interested in performance first and cachet last, so I am quite happy with my japanese bikes and chinese M14s.
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of course you own faster higher tech motorcycles, you can probably power slide at 200km and turn off ramps with only your back tire too. you must be a stunt rider.
like i said, if you can't hit 2moa with a somcom you can't shoot for shat. now go gather some more knowledge from your computer while sitting at the desk.
 
:popCorn: MMMMMMMMMMM Popcorn


4caxqvt.gif
 
aka-jdub said:
of course you own faster higher tech motorcycles, you can probably power slide at 200km and turn off ramps with only your back tire too. you must be a stunt rider.
like i said, if you can't hit 2moa with a somcom you can't shoot for shat. now go gather some more knowledge from your computer while sitting at the desk.
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this is turning into a petty little pissing contest...... I personally think that misanthropist has a fricken boat load more credibility than the newbie who is persisting with turning this into a personal attack with assanine comments as those expressed in this thread.
My norc receiver wearing nothing but the best of parts, with a SA NM medium pattern 18 3/4 inch barrel will shoot under 2 moa all day long with the right ammo..... you can have your socom.
this build cost me FAR less than it's springfield equivalent.... just FYI

who cares which is better.... who cares who cares who fricken cares.... buy what ya like and shut up already.....
hehehe I'm feelin pissy tonight...... :D :D
 
misanthropist or what he/she calls himself has lots of misinformation. 8moa?? like i said, speak of which you know. newbie or not matters little. now go have a cow already.
8moa lmfao. only a totally misinformed soul would speak of such blasphemy.
unless they are talking about shooting pellet guns on a windy day.

eta. 45acpking, if i want your 2 cents, i'll take it. thank you.
 
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to be clear, i did not attack. i merely stated that mis-whatever has bad information. i shoot paper, i do not run my mouth like lots of folks seem to.

yeah i'm a newbie but don't expect me to think you are more informed or experienced than i.

bunch of closet trolls lurking in here, i wonder if they shoot more than just their big mouths.

but back to this thread.

get what ever you like, the choice is yours and enjoy.
 
The real deal, huh?

Fenix.NZ said:
i would buy a springfield because its the authentic .. the real deal.. etc etc..
thats the only reason..
i like norcs .. they perform well for their cost.. im not afraid to beat something with it incase it gets scratches .. chopping down the barrel - sweet as
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What?

"...its the authentic .. the real deal.. etc etc.."
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The authentic, real deal what? :rolleyes:

You do know the meaning of the word "incorporated", don't you?

(It's authentic all right; it's just as authentic as an Eagle Arms' "Armalite".)
 
Well, this thread is turning out pretty cool...I am only reporting my experience, which is that m1a socoms that I have seen shot between 4 and 8 moa, and averaged a little below six. I think if anyone wants to look into this they will get numbers pretty similar to that.

Maybe it makes some people feel better to think that my information is based on a lack of experience. But I think enough people here know me well enough to know that that is not the case!

So think what you like, but I am comfortable with the information I presented. It is true to the best of my knowledge. No insults required.
 
I will never buy another Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A.

My very first M14 type rifle was a brand new 2001 Scout Squad.
This problematic POS was built with 100% reproduction parts.
It went back to the factory for warranty repair 4 times all before firing 800 rounds.
It had multiple problems that were corrected with new USGI parts... go figure.

My M1A is long gone, I replaced it with a bunch of Chinese M14s.
I can usually buy two old Chinese M14s for the price of one new M1A...

Four have been built up by Smith Enterprise, Inc.
Two have USGI TRW and SEI parts, two have USGI TRW, Chinese and SEI parts.
All of the others are bone stock 100% Chinese.

There is no better value in the M14 world than the Chinese M14.


.
 
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misanthropist said:
Well, this thread is turning out pretty cool...I am only reporting my experience, which is that m1a socoms that I have seen shot between 4 and 8 moa, and averaged a little below six. I think if anyone wants to look into this they will get numbers pretty similar to that.

Maybe it makes some people feel better to think that my information is based on a lack of experience. But I think enough people here know me well enough to know that that is not the case!

So think what you like, but I am comfortable with the information I presented. It is true to the best of my knowledge. No insults required.
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insults? you speak of experience, yet "have seen shot between 4 and 8 moa" look into what? you speak of experience. enough people know you?

i find it insulting that you speak of things based on others information and expect me to take it as factual.

maybe you or your sources should really spend more time at the range (no insult implied) with lots of ammo and practice. 4-8 moa is garbage shooting unless you are maybe talking about .22 on a windy day with irons. thats what i shoot with a .22 and i don't have the eyes i used too.

we really need to get along imo, if this aspect of our freedom is to survive. debate is fine, opinions are fine, facts are fine too. try to keep personal judgment based on non personal experience in check. as i have seen more often than not shooter skill is not up to the task. shooting short barreled moderate caliber rifles with irons is a challenge, manufacturer means little in this respect.
 
i find it insulting that you speak of things based on others information and expect me to take it as factual.
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Come to one of the Wet Coast Meetings and you'll see what these guys are all about. They are some of the finest and a few on this thread are the guys that we turn to, aka the m14 Gurus. They know what they are talking about.

maybe you or your sources should really spend more time at the range
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yea sorry we aint as good as you or maybe its just your Socom!

Coming from a guy like H20 man who lives in the states and has access to all the other "better than Norc" M14 clones and he still chooses the Norc, then its something. Aka..carry on....:popCorn:
 
7.62Nato said:
Come to one of the Wet Coast Meetings and you'll see what these guys are all about. They are some of the finest and a few on this thread are the guys that we turn to, aka the m14 Gurus. They know what they are talking about.


yea sorry we aint as good as you or maybe its just your Socom!

Coming from a guy like H20 man who lives in the states and has access to all the other "better than Norc" M14 clones and he still chooses the Norc, then its something. Aka..carry on....:popCorn:
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h20man had his experience, you have had yours (i assume as you piped in). like i said, i care little what you shoot, just shoot it well. i don't slam anyone who shoots what ever it is they choose. i slam slammers who pass others experience off as their own. i hope that is clear enough.

now get and get some shooting in folks, that is what we are all here for, is it not?

i am not sheep, i will not follow. i have my own path, and it is right for me.
 
One of the most effective tools on CGN is the "ignore" function.
Best way of dealing with trolls, idiots, and those who have nothing to contribute, but have lots to say.
 
Clear enough

aka-jdub said:
... what to buy a 500.00 chinese m1a or a 2000.00 us made m1a hmmm let me think.
if you are in a position to actually ponder this you will see what i mean.
if money is not a object buy the springfield, if money is tight buy the norinco.
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I don't see it that way.

If money is no object buy the Norinco, plenty of ammo, mags and go shooting.
If money is tight buy the Norinco, plenty of ammo, mags and go shooting.


Do this and you will be way ahead of the guy that dumped a bunch of cash on the
SAI reproduction that does not include a forged receiver or a chrome lined barrel.


One of my Norinco M14s after Ron Smith worked his magic.

MK14_SEI_Mod-0-.jpg
 
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