New CSC Service Pistol

Striker said:
Actually most law enforcement agencies have DOA..but yes..no doubt it's the liability thing..plus DAO is similar to the old revolver..
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HK's "DAO" is not the same thing as Glock's, S&W's, Springfield's, Walther's, etc DAO. On most "DAO" guns, when you rack the slide, the hammer/striker becomes partially pre-cocked, which results in lighter trigger pull than the double action pull of a typical SA/DA pistol. HK has a system like that too - it's called LEM. However, in addition to LEM they also have a "true DAO" where the hammer is ALWAYS decoked (and the trigger pull is always as heavy as the first shot of a SA/DA pistol). That's the version that CSC went for from what I understand.
 
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capp325 said:
HK's "DAO" is not the same thing as Glock's, S&W's, Springfield's, Walther's, etc DAO. On most "DAO" guns, when you rack the slide, the hammer/striker becomes partially pre-cocked, which results in lighter trigger pull than the double action pull of a typical SA/DA pistol. HK has a system like that too - it's called LEM. However, in addition to LEM they also have a "true DAO" where the hammer is ALWAYS decoked (and the trigger pull is always as heavy as the first shot of a SA/DA pistol). That's the version that CSC went for from what I understand.
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Aren't Glock/S&W/etc "safe action" rather than "DAO"? I believe most LE agencies who use Sigs would have theirs in DAO as well (which would be the same as HK's DAO).
 
capp325 said:
HK's "DAO" is not the same thing as Glock's, S&W's, Springfield's, Walther's, etc DAO. On most "DAO" guns, when you rack the slide, the hammer/striker becomes partially pre-cocked, which results in lighter trigger pull than the double action pull of a typical SA/DA pistol. HK has a system like that too - it's called LEM. However, in addition to LEM they also have a "true DAO" where the hammer is ALWAYS decoked (and the trigger pull is always as heavy as the first shot of a SA/DA pistol). That's the version that CSC went for from what I understand.
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Doesn't glock call theirs a "striker fired" trigger?
I based my comment on the fact most of the PD's around here carry the P226.
It kind of makes sense that CSC went with a true DA. No doubt someone told them it would make the transition easier from the model 10 regarding the trigger.
Double action, LEM, striker fired..it doesn't matter to me.
The fact they are upgrading all the firearms is great news.
Now our ar's will have C8 written on the magwell instead of SP1. ;)
 
Striker said:
Doesn't glock call theirs a "striker fired" trigger?
I based my comment on the fact most of the PD's around here carry the P226.
It kind of makes sense that CSC went with a true DA. No doubt someone told them it would make the transition easier from the model 10 regarding the trigger.
Double action, LEM, striker fired..it doesn't matter to me.
The fact they are upgrading all the firearms is great news.
Now our ar's will have C8 written on the magwell instead of SP1. ;)
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The Glock does use a striker as opposed to a hammer, but that is not a description of the actions in a trigger pull. If we stick with the single/double action nomenclature, a Glock-style action would basically be a single-and-a-half action.
 
The implementation of the new sidearm is going to be delayed (again) because CSC in all thier wisdom failed to the research the availability of duty holsters for the HK P2000.
 
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capp325 said:
P2000 actually has a pretty good trigger...in SA/DA and LEM variations. For some reason, the CSC went with the DAO version, which has by far the heaviest trigger pull of the three (my guess is they wanted to be "extra safe", in typical Canadian fashion).
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actually,.the weight of the DAO of the v5 is approx. 7.87lbs (according to the report),..while the LEM DA is anywheres from 5lbs - 8.5lbs. THe difference is the trigger reset distance between the DAO and LEM. The LEM only requires the user release the trigger after the first shot is fired to a SA type distance,...at which time the user can press the trigger again. THe DAO requires the user release the trigger each time to the DAO starting distance for reset. IN that way,..it is similiar to a DA revolver trigger reset.


THE DA /SA HK's I have owned have an approx 10lbs + DA trigger pull that is with the match hammer and spring! Managing the DA trigger pull of the DAO P2000 should be easily manageable when compared to the regular DA trigger pull.

It will not be as accurate as the revolver in comparison,.the reason is that the revolvers barrel is almost twice the length of the P2000!!! NOt because of the trigger.

Be wary of "experts" when you hear about firearms and particularly about this pistol. The folks in Ottawa probably have not shot before,..or have very limited knowledge and experience in firearms useage.

Most experts I have met spend about 5 days a year on the range,..and shoot less than 300 rounds a year. I shoot more than that in a typical practice. :rolleyes:


I actually saw Brinks guys at the range doing better training than is required by us for recert,....they used cover,...issued commands,,...did tactical reloads,..scanning,...etc...
In Quebec I have heard from officers that they train on strict time limits,...and are under some stress while qualifying. I wish we did that.

guys like Striker have to put up with management,...and it is all they can do to try and make the training as challenging as possible within the recert course guidelines.

I don't know every firearm inside and out,...but I know HK's,...this is a very decent self defense tool. Quality, reliable...accurate enough and easy to use. Ambi and night sights,....that is what is required for duty use.
sight picture,..press.:welcome:

you can buy this pistol at Wolverine supplies with the LEM,...with the restricted length barrel for around $1000.
I just put a P30-L on order,..which is the big brother to the P2000. The P30-L will have adjustable side panels,...as well as the rear panel like on the P2000.
 
phatns2pid said:
The Glock does use a striker as opposed to a hammer, but that is not a description of the actions in a trigger pull. If we stick with the single/double action nomenclature, a Glock-style action would basically be a single-and-a-half action.
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Humm..I've read numerous gun rag articles and that was the term they used to describe the action..
single and a half works though..:D
 
I'm not holding my breath on this one, the way CSC changes policy and blows money and contracts, better keep practicing on our Model 10's for a few years anyway.

I can't wait to see some of the people we work with try and manipulate a pistol like the P2000. As soon as you give them something more involved than a point and shoot weapon...... Yikes!!!!
 
they were looking for a pistol with ambi controls,...adjustable grip. The M& P comes closer to that than the Glock,...but the M&P is not proven like the HK P2000,....which is in service with many DHS agencies,..
 
14 firearms were tested by the CSC, The "Tester" him/her self wanted, in this order, M&P, Sig226, then the 5946. He/she was surprised that they went with the H&K which finished middle of the road but anyone here that has worked for the govt or read a newspaper the last 15 years knows how bad Canada's procurement process works. Last I heard, it's been pushed back till at least Jan because of spare parts/holster.
 
maddogz said:
14 firearms were tested by the CSC, The "Tester" him/her self wanted, in this order, M&P, Sig226, then the 5946. He/she was surprised that they went with the H&K which finished middle of the road but anyone here that has worked for the govt or read a newspaper the last 15 years knows how bad Canada's procurement process works. Last I heard, it's been pushed back till at least Jan because of spare parts/holster.
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And I've been told the H & K was the only one to pass their testing procedure...
Fed Gov't SOP..if you don't hear a good rumour by coffee break....start one. ;)
 
This isn't second hand word, this came from the mouth or the tester directly to me. 14 firearms, not all of the companies put in tenders. In fact, what I was told was that the whole mag release thing was a huge plus for the HK, I haven't handled the p2000 so I can't comment. Anyways, as a taxpayer, I think this was a big mistake. I think the M&P would have been a better choice.
 
The story I heard was that an American Agency had ordered a bunch of the P2000's and that the order was cancelled. Therefore a great deal was offered to CSC.

..... Now we get someone elses rejects again:( :(
 
Ok, I called Safariland last week and asked how long it would take to produce 4000 holsters for the HK P2000. I was looking at the lvl 3+ ALS with the 1.5" drop.

I was told 2-3 months. Nichols, who won the contract is the Safariland dealer in Canada. I think it is BS that this is on hold due to holsters.

Same with spare mags ect...

If I can get them so can CSC.
 
Mr Niceguy said:
Ok, I called Safariland last week and asked how long it would take to produce 4000 holsters for the HK P2000. I was looking at the lvl 3+ ALS with the 1.5" drop.

I was told 2-3 months. Nichols, who won the contract is the Safariland dealer in Canada. I think it is BS that this is on hold due to holsters.

Same with spare mags ect...

If I can get them so can CSC.
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OK, and 2-3 months from now is Nov/Dec. Pretty close to the quoted date of January, if you ask me...
 
furious said:
The story I heard was that an American Agency had ordered a bunch of the P2000's and that the order was cancelled. Therefore a great deal was offered to CSC.

..... Now we get someone elses rejects again:( :(
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I would not call the P2000 a reject,,...I would say a new Cadillac if anything,.. a blessing to get something that is not over 25 years or OLDER.

At least we are not getting the RCMP/DFO firearm. BTW, I don't think HK P2000 comes with a mag disconnect, another bonus. It does however have a lock out function. IT is accessed from the inside of the mag well.

they could have thrown a beretta or a Sig our way and I would be happy,.anything made in this century.
 
maddogz said:
This isn't second hand word, this came from the mouth or the tester directly to me. 14 firearms, not all of the companies put in tenders. In fact, what I was told was that the whole mag release thing was a huge plus for the HK, I haven't handled the p2000 so I can't comment. Anyways, as a taxpayer, I think this was a big mistake. I think the M&P would have been a better choice.
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Well as an end user of what ever new firearms we are issued and to echo my brothers..I will gladly accept any modern pistol although I will always have a soft spot for the old model 10's.
H & K have always ahd a stellar reputation and I can't wait to begin the transition training.
 
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