500gr load data for 45/70

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kf123

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Hi Guys...
I am casting a 500gr bullet for the 45/70. The mold I am using is an RCBS flat nose gas check design.I'll be shooting it out of a Marlin Guide gun. I was looking for some load data from some people that may have used heavy bullets in the Marlin.
Thanks in advance...
 
The only 45-70 info I have for a 500gr cast bullet, # 457460 RNGC load I found in my old Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets, 1st edition I believe. What powder are you planning on using and perhaps I can send you the load they have listed? Or, better yet, if you want, I can scan the page and e-mail it to you, just PM me your e-mail address.
 
Why not? said why not scan the page to Johnn. I was sitting with the scanner at arms reach and the Lyman book John mentioned at the other arms reach, so I did it! you may have to file it and enlarge a bit, to read everything.

45-70.jpg
 
Thanks for the info H4831..... it was exactly what I was looking for. I found some 500 gr info for the 45/70 but it was for Ruger rifles .... might be a little on the warm side for a Marlin.
 
H4831 said:
Why not? said why not scan the page to Johnn. I was sitting with the scanner at arms reach and the Lyman book John mentioned at the other arms reach, so I did it! you may have to file it and enlarge a bit, to read everything.

45-70.jpg
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It's all in my posting of pictures skills, or lack thereof. I'll figure it out one of these days.
I haven't checked yet but the Beartooth Bullets website may also have some load info relevant to using 500gr cast loads in the 45-70.
 
In case some of you are wondering about the "HI Vel #2" powder, so frequently shown in the Lyman book, here is some info on it.
This is from a Ellwood Epps 1964 catalogue.
Heck, at that price, maybe we should buy some!

HIV004.jpg
 
H4831 said:
In case some of you are wondering about the "HI Vel #2" powder, so frequently shown in the Lyman book, here is some info on it.
This is from a Ellwood Epps 1964 catalogue.
Heck, at that price, maybe we should buy some!

HIV004.jpg
Click to expand...
Time flys. When I first started reloading for the 357 & 44 Magnum's, 2400 wasn't much more than that.
 
H4831, thanks for posting that.

I had two questions to ask for clarification.

1) What pressure level would those loads be for? Trapdoor, Marlin, Ruger etc?

2) What company's powders are they referring to? Would it be Hodgdon or IMR? (H4198 and IMR 4198 loads are several grains apart as I believe are 3031 and others do too).

Cheers
 
Ike said:
H4831, thanks for posting that.

I had two questions to ask for clarification.

1) What pressure level would those loads be for? Trapdoor, Marlin, Ruger etc?

2) What company's powders are they referring to? Would it be Hodgdon or IMR? (H4198 and IMR 4198 loads are several grains apart as I believe are 3031 and others do too).

Cheers
Click to expand...

Do some of you other guys want to answer this one?
 
Ike said:
H4831, thanks for posting that.

I had two questions to ask for clarification.

1) What pressure level would those loads be for? Trapdoor, Marlin, Ruger etc?

2) What company's powders are they referring to? Would it be Hodgdon or IMR? (H4198 and IMR 4198 loads are several grains apart as I believe are 3031 and others do too).

Cheers
Click to expand...
#1/ At a quick look, and going out on a bit limb, I did a quick comparison on loads using the same powders and two cast bullets referenced in both the New & Old Lyman Cast Bullet Hand Books, # 457122 & # 457124. Overall, and on a basis of that, I would venture to say, the loads listed in the old manual, a page of which H4831 has posted, seem to be in the range of loads listed for between the Marlin & Ruger #1 strength of actions. That's just my guess.
#2/ I believe, as indicated in the new Cast Bullet Handbook, the powders you've asked about are IMR in the old manual and the new one. You could e-mail them to find out for sure but again, in the new handbook, the powders you've asked about are IMR so I'm assuming they are in the old Handbook also.
 
Here we go, from RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1
Bullet 45-500 FN Wt 507 grains Dia .458 Lube: Rifle
Rifle Marlin 1895
IMR 4198 30 grains 1254 fps
IMR 4198 32 Grains 1337 fps
IMR 3031 42 Grains 1469 fps
IMR 3031 44 Grains 1533 fps
HER 2400 25 Grains 1325 fps
HER 2400 27 Grains 1441 fps
IMR 4227 25 grains 1235 fps
IMR 4227 27 Grains 1342 fps
 
I found this load data. It is safe for use in the Marlin:

AA 2495 45.0 1520
IMR 4198 42.7 1612
IMR 3031 52.8 1683
H-4895 52.5 1820
RL-7 44.3 1705
IMR 4227 28.0 14.43
2400 24.0 1346
H-322 41.0 1610

I shot some of these loads today and here is the data I got:

H322 41 1570
RL7 37 1540
IMR4198 40 1660fps


I shot about 60 rounds of these loads today and they are probably averaging 2 - 2.5 inch 100 yard groups. Yeah ... they kick!!! I plan on shooting some more of them soon .... when I am done healing.:D
 
John Y Cannuck said:
The 3rd edition Cast bullet handbook does not list a 500 grain load for the Marlin strength action.
See next post
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I realise that and when I was trying to determine what strength of action the loads in the older Lyman manual were, I made a list of loads with bullets that were listed in both. You're correct on what strength of action the lists in the old manual are geared towards. :redface:After I made the lists, I made note of the wrong manual on the list.:redface:Sorry about that guys.:redface:
John Y, when did RCBS come out with the #1 Cast Bullet Manual? I've never seen it advertised. It's on my list of thing to get though. I'm planning on calling them tomorrow to inquire about and possibly order their AmmoMaster Chronograph so I'll inquire about their Cast Bullet Manual as well.
 
First printing December 1986
Developed and edited by the research staff of RCBS, CCI, and Speer
Hard cover, 172 pages, mostly data.
I got it in a bunch of stuff, with an Ebay deal. I've never seen one on the shelf anywhere.

IMGP0628.JPG
 
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John Y Cannuck said:
First printing December 1986
Developed and edited by the research staff of RCBS, CCI, and Speer
Hard cover, 172 pages, mostly data.
I got it in a bunch of stuff, with an Ebay deal. I've never seen one on the shelf anywhere.

IMGP0628.JPG
Click to expand...
Just talked to RCBS on the 1-800 # and the Cast Bullet Manual is out of print and hasn't been available for a while now. Looks like I'm a day late and a buck short on that one.
The second item of that call, their AmmoMaster Chronograph although advertised is not yet available and won't be until sometime in September. I'm not doing too well at all today. Strike two.
 
This is from the Aug-Sept 2007 issue of Handloader Magazine, which once came to me courtesay of Johnn Peterson. It's from an article by Brian Pearce, on handloading the Malin's model 1895.
This page shows loadings that appear mighty stiff for the Marlin, but note at the bottom of the page, they were all shot (and chrongraphed) in the 1895 with the 22 inch barrel. Note at he top, its states no load exceeds 43,500 CUP.

45002.jpg
 
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