Tomahawk 1200 pics and first impressions(update,test fired)

johnone said:
ENIGMATIC1;
Thank you for providing your name so I could look into this file myself.
You are correct, you ordered on May 2nd 08
Your transfer was approved May 12th 08
We debited your credit card on May 13th 08
Your shotgun was shipped May 15th 08

You are quite right, we did have an issue with a very small number of these guns, the mag spring was too weak to feed the last round in the mag.... as a result the shell retainers took over and bad feeding was the result....

You returned your purchase at the end of May, it was collected at the post office in the first week of June.

Now comes the part I cannot explain, why It sat in the repair department for so long, it should have been repaired, replaced or credited....

I fully understand your frustration however your statement is a bit overboard "You want to know what I got out of the deal??? The bill to ship that piece of s**t back to them. Unbelievable that they are a site sponsor, with an "ironclad guarantee"

HOW MUCH was your return shipping ? We will cover it of course.
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That is a completely different answer then what I received from one of your staff on the phone. I asked them, what do we do with shipping it back to you guys, and he said I pay for it.

Canada Post charged me $29.07 to ship the shotgun back to you guys. I don't understand why you caps locked the HOW MUCH.

Just as an example, I ordered a bipod from PyramydAir. 25 dollar value. They sent me the wrong one. I called them and let them know, and within that phonecall I had an e-mail containing return prepaid postage.

johnone said:
Why did you not contact me in the first place ?
In this case I became aware of the issue this week end, you provided your name, I had the file on my desk this morning (Monday), I hope I have resolved it....
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I'm sorry that I only became aware of you in this thread, after I posted. Normally when I contact businesses, if the person I am speaking with doesn't know how to handle the call, they know who to transfer me to.

johnone said:
I have instructed the invoicing dept to issue a credit note to your card company for the full purchase price, including shipping.

We apologize for the obvious mix up that occured....

May I suggest that in the future, should you favour us with your business, if a problem comes about, contact me or one of the supervisors, it saves time and nerves.
Regards
John
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I will check with Visa tomorrow to ensure it made its way onto my card.
 
Ah what's the point...

Suffice to say I was in a position to be a long-term loyal Marstar customer myself, but that loyalty was squandered miserably.

Oh well, live and learn.
 
ENIGMATIC1;
" That is a completely different answer then what I received from one of your staff on the phone. I asked them, what do we do with shipping it back to you guys, and he said I pay for it."
Perhaps a misunderstanding, we always tell the customer to pay for any return, we then refund the shipping charges... This avoids a COD return to us which incurs extra charges.

"I will check with Visa tomorrow to ensure it made its way onto my card"
Please allow 3-4 days for any credit card company to post a credit to an account....

I hope we can now close the file on this misfotunate series of exchanges ????
John
 
POTTSY;
Perhaps you might elaborate on that, explain to these nice folks exactly what happened ??
Otheriwse they might get the wrong impression
John
 
johnone said:
POTTSY;
Perhaps you might elaborate on that, explain to these nice folks exactly what happened ??
Otheriwse they might get the wrong impression
John
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Are you serious ?

Holy sh*t John, you must be off your meds.

Besides, a post detailing how many PM's/E-mails directly to you went unanswered, and the BS that some of your trusted employee's toss around with impunity wouldn't do your case much good. Nor would explaining how when a credit was finally applied after ~5-6 months that credit was applied to the wrong persons card. (Nobody has a problem when mistakes happen, but pile BS onto mistakes and add failure to communicate... well that's a different animal.)

You should really learn to think about what you are asking for.
 
johnone said:
ENIGMATIC1;
" That is a completely different answer then what I received from one of your staff on the phone. I asked them, what do we do with shipping it back to you guys, and he said I pay for it."
Perhaps a misunderstanding, we always tell the customer to pay for any return, we then refund the shipping charges... This avoids a COD return to us which incurs extra charges.

"I will check with Visa tomorrow to ensure it made its way onto my card"
Please allow 3-4 days for any credit card company to post a credit to an account....

I hope we can now close the file on this misfotunate series of exchanges ????
John
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No, there was no misunderstanding. Thats what I was told, nothing more, nothing less. You can't misunderstand something that wasn't said. Am I safe in assuming that I will be credited for the Canada Post as well? I can fax/scan and e-mail you the receipt if required.

I will then check on Friday if I have received a credit.

As far as closing this file, I sure hope so.
 
i think this should be ended.
we get the point.
companys soem times screw up.. i do it, it can happen,a company the size of marstar just has more chance for this to happen as they are much bigger then others.
I have been with CGN since before the start, one of the founding members.
I have seen many a marstar ##### thread, but never have i ever seen marstar not come good foreverything and anything that they have sold.
It has taken longer then other companys at times but they have allways come good.
iI myself have had over 150 guns in the last 7 yrs that in one way or another have come from marstar, and they have allways been good to deal with, can any of you say you have had 150+ guns from them???
bbb
 
johnone said:
TDC;
Please inform yourself, beofre making claims, as to exactly what our volume is, what is the return ratio, what is the defective ratio ??

If I were to say that a our Mauser sales which total just over 500,000 units had a rate of return of less than 1/4 of a rifle per 1000 sold.... would that be unusual ?

What about the M-305 rifles, we have sold approximately 5,000 units we experienced a retrun of less than 25 units or 1/2 of 1%,

We have sold many thousands of Norinco pistols, our return rate is below that of the M-305s....

By the way, a return does not mean a problem in all cases, the client did not like the bluing, did not like the grain of the wood, perhaps the example received was not the same as the one on the site, etc, etc....

If all of our products were as bad as you, and given our no BS warranty policy, do you really think we would have lasted all these years....??
John
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I'm not going to debate numbers. What I can tell you is that more times than not when someone at the range or online complains of a firearm it was purchased from Marstar. Coincidence, I think not. A return in any case is a bad thing. I will however say that many who purchase low budget firearms seem to have champagne taste for their beer budget firearm with regards to finish, wood, etc. I'm sure there are those who couldn't be bothered returning defective or aesthetically blemished firearms, and those who find it easier to sell it off than return it. I have yet to see any competitors at any of the three gun matches I've shot or training I've attended run anything offered at Marstar other than the VZ58(which isn't a Marstar exclusive not to mention its manufactured in a nation which has a long running history of firearms manufacturing) without encountering serious problems.


I'm sure a low return rate on some if not many of the products you offer is due to lack of use. For those who cannot or will not commit to a shooting discipline an economic firearm is a no brainer, such as the Norinco lineup. Firearms that aren't being shot tend to last longer than those that are, naturally resulting in few returns. I'm sure any of the major brands could put your sales vs returns figures to shame, and their products get used.

With regards to the Norinco M305 and the 1911 pistols. I find it odd that so many speak of Norinco with high regard then immediately upon purchase strip off most the OEM parts and replace them with USGI or equivalent parts. Some even go so far as to search for ways to remove or hide the Norinco logo. Seems like odd behaviour for such quality goods.

Your No BS return policy looks good on paper but according to more than one poster in this thread, the policy is as solid as the products you offer. I don't know all the details and I don't know the truth as it happened from both sides. I do however find it hard to believe that either of the two unhappy posters stands to gain anything by lying and posting it for all to read. At the end of the day, I could really care less. I've never bought a firearm from Marstar, and I'm quite confident I never will.

Your success over the years isn't something I would attribute to stellar products and service to match. In a country where only a handful of retailers exist and even fewer among that crowd offer milsurps, handguns and odd pieces. I'd say Marstar stands a pretty good chance of staying afloat in a vacuum of such magnitude. Couple that with the ever constant belief and practice that saving a few bucks at every opportunity is the best policy. Its no wonder Marstar(as well as others) see such great success. Its the dollar store mentality. A whole store full of next to useless crap of the lowest quality, but for the price....

TDC
 
TDC;
Well now, I have to thank you for your well informed and well researched opinions and conclusions.

It is now obvious to me that we are doing everything wrong and will have to mend our ways.

I will make you the same offer I have made others, buy the company and then run it your way, obviously given your experience and expertise you will prosper and enjoy 100000% satisfaction from your customers.

Once again, thank you for your positive input and support
John
 
MANGIL;
I would like to take a few moments to go over matters with you.
Obviously you are not satisfied with your purchase.

I have advised the billing dept to issue a full credit, including shipping, to your credit card.

I agree with you the nice folks here should read the review featured at the following link, http://www.gunblast.com/TriStar.htm

the guns in question are NOT similar, they come off the same line, at the same factory....

I find it strange that you find that review satisfactory (Tristar brand) but Marstar is not.

Reviewing your comments;
"BTW I am not a shotgun expert, my only other one is a cheap Maverick 88"
You feel qualified to review and place yourself in the same category as the gentleman in the USA ?

"The flat black finish on the barrel and the receiver is thin and scratches easily"
Come on now, your expertise should certainly make you aware that simply rubbing your fingernail across ANY such finish will show up as a "scratch", however wiping it clean with an oily rag makes it dissappear....
The selection of lighting for the photography will give whatever results the user seeks.

"The gun is internally rough... lots of machining marks and burrs"
I would appreciate your input here.
Please let me know how we can produce such a gun and offer it at a reasonable price and still remove all of these internal machining marks ? How do the have any negative effects on the functioning ?

"the gun came "factory equiped" with a few scratches on both side of the receiver...
this "z" shaped one being the most obvious"
You know as well as I do that these are friction marks from the cardboard packaging and are quickly wiped off with an oily cloth (as discussed above).

"An other one on the pistol grip..."
I admit that is one that obviously escaped examination.

"The choke tubes treads are rough and the notches even more... "
How does this effect the functioning ?

"The first rail (The european one?) is actualy a banana shaped piece of very soft plastic...it is honestly the first time I see "something" like that on a firearm"
I am surprised at your comments, surely someone with your extensive knowledge knows better ?

"The other supplied rail is is molded (not milled) out of aluminum... "
Once again your expert knowledge shine through, but I have to argue with you, they machine made, not molded, as you state....

"detail both sides (metal parts are stamped)"
May I respectfully suggest you have a look at your own pictures, the major functioning parts are investment cast and machined.

IN CONCLUSION, I mst say I amenvious of your great knowledge and please consider this as a job offer, we certainly can use someone like yourself who can come up with designs, plan production with the engineers at the factory, and most important of all, eliminate all of the issues mentioned and keep the price down.

Thank you for your input and we look forward to meeting with you
John
 
DECKARD;
"If I knew how to buy the business...and could....I would"
Not a problem my friend, buying a business is not a problem, its just a matter of money....
Running the business is a different matter altogether, the gray hair, sleepless nights, trying to keep everyone happy,
delivery problems, customs problems, international shipping delays, etc, etc.... These are all free, they come with the package....

All that said, enjoying the priviledge of running a successful business is beyond comparison.... But this priviledge is accorded to you by your customers and can be quickly withdrawn....
Would I encourage you to go into business, YES
Regards
John
 
MANGIL; Regarding your range testing of the 1200, I have a few questions if you have the time....

"These are grooves... not only marks or scratches..."
These were not some of your rough machining marks previously noted in your detailed evaluation ?

"Much more gun for the money... they are not pretty... solid feel... they are what I expected from the Tomahawk... rough but tough"
I find this comment interesting, it's ok for others to be rough and tough but not Marstar ??

NOW the most important question of all, you claim to have fired this shotgun, why is the bolt face completely clean ?
Did you polish the bolt face after shooting the gun ?
John
 
Let's try add some balance here.

I have purchased over twenty firearms, of various types, from Marstar. Every one has functioned flawlessly. Many of these have been as accurate, if not more so, than the original they are based on. I've had no complaints about fit and finish. I've fired thousands of rounds through many of them, without problems, mechanical or otherwise. Whether done by phone or email, every transaction went without a hitch. John has always responded to each email and inquiry I've made, in a timely and satisfactory manner.

I would dare say, given the volume, there are tons more satisfied customers than the few dissatisfied. Satisfied people don't tend to speak out. Speaking of volume for returns and customer dissatisfaction, go look at any big box store. Or Sears, the Bay or Canadian Tire. There returns are huge. And try deal with their Customer Service. Marstar beats them hands down.

Thanks to John and Marstar, there are hundreds, if not thousands, more new shooters in Canada. I've personally converted about ten in the local area, whose first firearm came from John, because they are affordable and get the job done.

Some people will always find something to ##### and whine about. I've seen Fuds wimper about someone else's $10,000 pigeon grade trap gun. This is no different.

You don't like John's service. Think you can get a better warranty somewhere else? Get a better gun for the price? Then move along and get to it. I doubt John will miss your singular business over the thousands of satisfied (some repeat) customers he already has.
 
johnone said:
NOW the most important question of all, you claim to have fired this shotgun, why is the bolt face completely clean ?
Did you polish the bolt face after shooting the gun ?
John
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Now there's an interesting customer service approach. Imply the customer is a liar. Your little gunshop must be doing VERY well if you can treat customers like s**t in front of potentially thousands of viewers.

But keep on posting. The more you post the more you decrease your brand equity and corporate reputation. If your operation were up for sale this would be covered under "goodwill."

At the rate you're going it will be worth sweet f**k all very shortly if it isn't already. Everytime you run your mouth here the value of your company decreases.
 
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