So the last two years I brought a young fellow with me on a couple bird hunts. I let him do the shooting, and he has always been right next to me with my gun. This year he passed his hunter safety test, and is in the starting process of getting his own PAL. But now that he has his own licenses, I wondered about this. Can I allow him to use one of my shotguns and use one myself if he's again right next to me? I figured there would be no problem in the past with the two of us together and only one gun. But is there anything that says I cannot allow him the use of a firearm even under supervision by a licensed shooter?
Gun hunting without a PAL question.
- Thread starter pharaoh2
- Start date
- Location
- marmora ontario
WHAAAAAT?????? Don't understand? JITC
if he has a license then you don't need to even be with him, even if it is with your firearm. As long as he has a copy of the reg cert.
'technically' you don't need a copy of the reg cert for a non restricted firearm, but IF stopped they COULD seize the firearm until it IS registered.
'technically' you don't need a copy of the reg cert for a non restricted firearm, but IF stopped they COULD seize the firearm until it IS registered.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Quote: if he has a license then you don't need to even be with him, even if it is with your firearm. As long as he has a copy of the reg cert.
sounds to me like the young fellow has a hunting licence but NOT a PAL. So it is not OK to let him hunt with your guns unless he is under your direct supervision.
sounds to me like the young fellow has a hunting licence but NOT a PAL. So it is not OK to let him hunt with your guns unless he is under your direct supervision.
I'm confused here, but the reason could be that different provinces regulate hunting differently.
1. A "young" fella hunting with you was shooting game prior to passing the hunter safety course? Is it legal in Alberta to hunt/harvest game with out passing the hunter safety course? Is passing the hunter safety course not required to buy a hunting license?
2. This year he passed the hunter safety course, and is now trying to get his PAL. How old is he? If he's old enough to get a PAL, why didn't he get take the hunter safety course before? I believe he would be eligible for a minor's permit if he was under 18.
It looks like Mauser98 answered your question, but its the rest that's got me wondering.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
What exactly does the kid have? sounds like evrything but a PAL
In the past there was no excuse for him being unlicensed and shooting birds (as well as illegal)
Resident Youth Hunting Licences
Subject to the age limitations and conditions above, a resident 12 to 17 years of age may purchase a Resident Youth Wildlife Certificate, including a Game Bird Licence, for $8.30.
It is unlawful to
carry or use another person's licence or tag or allow another person to use your licence or tag
Youth first-time hunters (12 to 17 years of age) have two options, depending on age. First-time hunters under 14 years of age must complete the Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education course. Those 14 to 17 years of age have the option of completing the Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education course or successfully completing the Alberta Hunter Competency exam. A youth must be at least 12 years old to hunt under the authority of any hunting licence in Alberta. All hunters under the age of 16 years must have written permission from a parent or guardian to purchase hunting licences. Hunters who are 11 years old may apply in the draws for licences if they meet the above criteria but they must be 12 years old anytime before or during the open season for that draw. They may not hunt until they are 12 years old. Note: As of 2007, hunters who are 12 or 13 years of age are no longer restricted to hunting big game with only a bow and arrow. To hunt with a firearm, hunters under 18 years of age must be accompanied by a parent, a legal guardian or by a person 18 years of age or older who has the written permission of the parent or legal guardian.
So he's 18 years old, does not have a PAL, and you are wondering if it is ok to give him a gun and go hunting with you while you use another gun?
NO
If you are hunting and shootingI would not say that the other person is within your direct and immediate supervision, but you can argue that in court I guess.
With a new young hunter, take the time to teach the legalities and so on. The last thing you need is him putting his faith in you keeping things legal and then he gets fined or restricted from hunting for something stupid.
No license, no hunting
You're under age, take the youth courses and get youth licenses (that's who they are made for)
You're of age, get proper licenses (which include PAL) and try to resist taking advantage of a grey area that could leave you screwed for a season or longer and fighting in court.
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Wrong.Mauser98 is right.
What exactly does the kid have? sounds like evrything but a PAL
So he's 18 years old, does not have a PAL, and you are wondering if it is ok to give him a gun and go hunting with you while you use another gun?
NO
If you are hunting and shootingI would not say that the other person is within your direct and immediate supervision, but you can argue that in court I guess.
mauser98 is absolutely right.
matter of fact.... i have a friend who hunts with us every year and still has no POL/PAL. he always borrows a rifle and hunts with a partner who does have his PAL. He's been checked numerous times afield.... well... 3 that i remember and was found to be with accordance of the law.
what would be wrong is if hunter A with PAL and Hunter B without..... head off in two directions away from each other to meet up later..... or if hunter A leaves Hunter B sitting on a shootin lane and hunter A does a push. You have to be within proximity..... earshot..... direct supervision..... yadda yadda
go have fun with the young fella..... and good on you for mentoring a new hunter.... you should be proud
matter of fact.... i have a friend who hunts with us every year and still has no POL/PAL. he always borrows a rifle and hunts with a partner who does have his PAL. He's been checked numerous times afield.... well... 3 that i remember and was found to be with accordance of the law.
what would be wrong is if hunter A with PAL and Hunter B without..... head off in two directions away from each other to meet up later..... or if hunter A leaves Hunter B sitting on a shootin lane and hunter A does a push. You have to be within proximity..... earshot..... direct supervision..... yadda yadda
go have fun with the young fella..... and good on you for mentoring a new hunter.... you should be proud
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
Two guns, two hunters, two shooters, and only one PAL and the person is not a minor?
Are you sure of that?
If that's the case, my wife can go get her tags and licenses and we can go hunting, her with a gun and me with one as long as we're beside each other?
I hope you're right in what you said.
I was told that two people shooting does not equal immediate and direct supervision and this was from the CFC crowd. If you guys are right, then I am pissed. I was given misinformation and my wife who would occasionally gone with me, would not for fear of breaking the law and was told to us.
Last time, are you guys sure.
As for being in accordance with the law when stopped by CO
I have never had one check for PALS, ..
Are you sure of that?
If that's the case, my wife can go get her tags and licenses and we can go hunting, her with a gun and me with one as long as we're beside each other?
I hope you're right in what you said.
I was told that two people shooting does not equal immediate and direct supervision and this was from the CFC crowd. If you guys are right, then I am pissed. I was given misinformation and my wife who would occasionally gone with me, would not for fear of breaking the law and was told to us.
Last time, are you guys sure.
As for being in accordance with the law when stopped by CO
I have never had one check for PALS, ..
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It is the law sealhunter.. Check the regulations posted on the first page.
My two buddies have their hunting license, but both haven't sent in the application for the P.A.L yet.. lol, the one actually thinks he might have mistakenly burnt it in the fire with all of his school papers, which is kind of unfortunate. But anyways, we would like to hunt grouse and geese, so they are giving me money, I am buying them the shotgun they would like. However, I keep it at my house, and I bring it out when we go hunting together. There will be 3 of us and all of the guns will be registered under my name.
I will transfer the firearms to them once they get all their P.A.L stuff in and are certified.
My two buddies have their hunting license, but both haven't sent in the application for the P.A.L yet.. lol, the one actually thinks he might have mistakenly burnt it in the fire with all of his school papers, which is kind of unfortunate. But anyways, we would like to hunt grouse and geese, so they are giving me money, I am buying them the shotgun they would like. However, I keep it at my house, and I bring it out when we go hunting together. There will be 3 of us and all of the guns will be registered under my name.
I will transfer the firearms to them once they get all their P.A.L stuff in and are certified.
The CFR web site has the answer to your question. I know that YOU know better than to ask this legality question here
Don't have the patiance to deal with them much anymore. That's why I a member of this information board. I'm gathering information.
Let me put it this way; It does me no good knowing the rules to the letter of the law when those enforcing the laws don't know them any better. Let me explain. I know of a guy who had his unloaded Winchester 1300 defender with a 7 or 8 shot magazine seized by the RCMP because it was prohibited due to it's ability to hold more than 5 shots in it's magazine.
I was at an RCMP roadblock in the middle of nowhere with a rifle in the car. I refused to present my registration certificate, even though he asked for it. I gave him my PAL, nothing more.
I guess these laws are easy enough to understand, and if it is read right I am allowed to let someone else use my registered firearms. But if those enforcing the laws don't understand that, they can make decisions like taking away a legal shotgun because they misinterperated the law.
As for taking an un-licensed hunter out, well again it's how you look at it. Every year I buy $100-150 worth of licenses and draws, even though I have no intention of hunting half of the animals. I just like putting my money back into the resource. To be honest I couldn't care less if I even pull a trigger. Heck, the last time I so much as looked at a deer with a cross-hair on it was in 2002. I get my pleasure lately from introducing new people to the sport. I start by telling them stories and getting them excited. Eventually I'll ask them if they would like to come out one night. That's when they get excited and want to get into it themselves. I don't think that same enthusiasm would be there if I threw them a bunch of paper work first.
We need new blood pumped into the sport, and the best way to do that is by you introducing new people. If your not comfortable with them shooting, then just bring them along. Sealhunter, just because you feared the law doesn't mean you couldn't bring your Wife on the walk. There is no law that say's you cannot be accompanied by someone else. Whether or not she touches the gun is a different story, but according to what I have read in this thread you shouldn't worry too much. And that's kind of what my understanding was, but I wanted others views of the subject.
No P.A.L. one gun between both and under immediate supervison (period)
P stands for possession and that is what the individual has when he/she is hunting. The good thing is that most conservation officers are only checking for hunting licenses and under the hunting licence if the individual is 15 they can carry there own gun. These are two different laws (Ontario).
I know this because when my son started we were checked and do to short stock for him, when we took turns shooting one gun was cased while the other was in use. And that is when the officer gave us the speal on what would have happened if the rule wasn't followed.
P stands for possession and that is what the individual has when he/she is hunting. The good thing is that most conservation officers are only checking for hunting licenses and under the hunting licence if the individual is 15 they can carry there own gun. These are two different laws (Ontario).
I know this because when my son started we were checked and do to short stock for him, when we took turns shooting one gun was cased while the other was in use. And that is when the officer gave us the speal on what would have happened if the rule wasn't followed.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
Well I have to call BS on a few of you guys
I had a friend back east call in just now.
DEFINITELY NOT !!! from CFC
I just spoke with a CO as far as that goes and he said that you are not to be in posesion of two live guns while hunting birds. WIth only one PAL you are in posession of both.
He said that in said scenario, one gun would have to be cased, and the gun that my wife is shooting is in my posesion, and that even this, as far as the hunting goes may be illegal as she is not a minor, .... He's checking.
I then asked him about her
getting tags and shooting her animals under my supervision. He said he will check on it when he gets to work, but believes it is illegal. He said that you must be eligible to hunt the animals when you apply for the license. If you apply for a license that specifies a firearm to be used, then without a PAL or a minor's permit, you are not eligible.
According to you guys, Am i getting it right, that my sisters, mom, wife, etc can all get their tags, though they don't have PALS, as long as I am with them when they shoot them?
I had a friend back east call in just now.
DEFINITELY NOT !!! from CFC
I just spoke with a CO as far as that goes and he said that you are not to be in posesion of two live guns while hunting birds. WIth only one PAL you are in posession of both.
He said that in said scenario, one gun would have to be cased, and the gun that my wife is shooting is in my posesion, and that even this, as far as the hunting goes may be illegal as she is not a minor, .... He's checking.
I then asked him about her
getting tags and shooting her animals under my supervision. He said he will check on it when he gets to work, but believes it is illegal. He said that you must be eligible to hunt the animals when you apply for the license. If you apply for a license that specifies a firearm to be used, then without a PAL or a minor's permit, you are not eligible.
According to you guys, Am i getting it right, that my sisters, mom, wife, etc can all get their tags, though they don't have PALS, as long as I am with them when they shoot them?
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- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
mauser98 is absolutely right.
matter of fact.... i have a friend who hunts with us every year and still has no POL/PAL. he always borrows a rifle and hunts with a partner who does have his PAL. He's been checked numerous times afield.... well... 3 that i remember and was found to be with accordance of the law.
what would be wrong is if hunter A with PAL and Hunter B without..... head off in two directions away from each other to meet up later..... or if hunter A leaves Hunter B sitting on a shootin lane and hunter A does a push. You have to be within proximity..... earshot..... direct supervision..... yadda yadda
go have fun with the young fella..... and good on you for mentoring a new hunter.... you should be proud
I was told that this scenario is a party license and both hunters must be in posesion of a PAL in this scenario. I was also told that in said scenario, your buddy is in illegal posesion of a firearm the second he is out of your direct reach. Earshot, view etc is not Immediate and Direct Supervision.
CO said he believes that without a PAL or POL or youth permit you are not eligible to hunt animals with a firearm and are in violation when you apply for licenses.
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- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
Don't have the patiance to deal with them much anymore. That's why I a member of this information board. I'm gathering information.
Let me put it this way; It does me no good knowing the rules to the letter of the law when those enforcing the laws don't know them any better. Let me explain. I know of a guy who had his unloaded Winchester 1300 defender with a 7 or 8 shot magazine seized by the RCMP because it was prohibited due to it's ability to hold more than 5 shots in it's magazine.
I was at an RCMP roadblock in the middle of nowhere with a rifle in the car. I refused to present my registration certificate, even though he asked for it. I gave him my PAL, nothing more.
I guess these laws are easy enough to understand, and if it is read right I am allowed to let someone else use my registered firearms. But if those enforcing the laws don't understand that, they can make decisions like taking away a legal shotgun because they misinterperated the law.
As for taking an un-licensed hunter out, well again it's how you look at it. Every year I buy $100-150 worth of licenses and draws, even though I have no intention of hunting half of the animals. I just like putting my money back into the resource. To be honest I couldn't care less if I even pull a trigger. Heck, the last time I so much as looked at a deer with a cross-hair on it was in 2002. I get my pleasure lately from introducing new people to the sport. I start by telling them stories and getting them excited. Eventually I'll ask them if they would like to come out one night. That's when they get excited and want to get into it themselves. I don't think that same enthusiasm would be there if I threw them a bunch of paper work first.
We need new blood pumped into the sport, and the best way to do that is by you introducing new people. If your not comfortable with them shooting, then just bring them along. Sealhunter, just because you feared the law doesn't mean you couldn't bring your Wife on the walk. There is no law that say's you cannot be accompanied by someone else. Whether or not she touches the gun is a different story, but according to what I have read in this thread you shouldn't worry too much. And that's kind of what my understanding was, but I wanted others views of the subject.
I've taken her with me, but have never taken two guns cause I was told I couldn't. It's not fear of the law so much as this is what I was told was illegal. But some people here say it is not, and if indeed it is not, then I want to take advantage of that opportunity, the same as you.
I am not taking a shot at you, I am pretty pissed though that I was told it is illegal and others of you say it is not. This misinformation has kept a few guys I know from out for a day with two guns with me, and if I was fed Bull#### from CFC then I am pissed.
Good on you for taking a kid out, I have too, but stopped short of taking two guns. Now I need to know if was fed bull#### from CFC and CO's or if I was alloed all along to legally take two guns
I think the unfortunate message here,along with many other situations is that CO's, police offcers, most people on the CFC's phone lines DO NOT know the law.
What Mauser 98 has posted is correct. You cannot be in possession of something in the hands of another licensed hunter, as well as what is in your hands. It is perfectly legal to hunt with 1 person having the firearms license, the other only a hunting license, so long as the direct and immediate supervision component is met.
What Mauser 98 has posted is correct. You cannot be in possession of something in the hands of another licensed hunter, as well as what is in your hands. It is perfectly legal to hunt with 1 person having the firearms license, the other only a hunting license, so long as the direct and immediate supervision component is met.
