Gun hunting without a PAL question.

Just get the PAL the course is a joke and lets face it, it’s a hassle to tied to your buddy when hunting. Let’s not give the jack-offs more reasons to hassle use. Lets face it you may be within your rights but the hassles that the establishment can cause will kill you week-end
 
Well this subject certainly has raised a few eyebrows to say the least. It's needless to say that whether or not this is illegal, it just proves that certain laws need to be clarified and or changed. I see both arguments for sure. On one side, you can read the rules as having a second firearm loaded and ready to use, but with only one PAL an issue. On the other side, since the Provincial regs don't actually state that a PAL is required for that particular rule, I would be in the right. I suppose ultimatly it would be up to the individual who may be there to check us out. Honestly I don't mind sharing one gun. I just thought that it would be a little more fun to allow my friend the 'freedom' of using a gun on his own, without the cloud of babysitter over him. And by including two guns, I just figured it would really help him spread his wings. I think I will just err on the side of caution and bring only one gun out but by all means carry on the debate. Maybe someone can provide us all with somthing that will truely answer this question with no doubts. :)
 
This thread has shed some light. I was under the impression that having two guns was legal, as long as the individual was under constant and direct supervision of the person who the gun is registered to. Does this apply in all situations, or only hunting?

And from what I've read, this is the case in Ontario. Does anyone else care to confirm this?
 
When I teach the firearms safety course I teach that you can have someone else shooting your firearm in any situation you could be as long as they are under your supervision, arms length is what I recommend as it does say direct control. If two of you are in a goose blind side by side I see no problem with it.

People seem stuck that it's ok to hunt with a kid that way, but not an adult. While I realize common sense doesn't have much to do with the law I can't see anywhere in the law it distinguishes between youths and adults when you are the pal holder and have them along shooting.

For what it's worth I'd quite confidently take a hunting partner with a hunting license but no firearm with me and take 2 guns.
 
My son who has the hunter number but not the PAL only decided to come last week, so he will initiate the paperwork for a PAL,but I doubt if he will have it by the time we leave.We're heading way north and with the grizzly population there's no way I;m going to be there with only one rifle...in fact some guys have a loaded 12 guage as well as their rifle within reach when field dressing a moose-in the willows the visability is in feet not yards.Some of those bears have been seen to head toward the sound of a gunshot...they know a gut pile is likely there.I'm not sure of the regulations for my native son though-I seem to think his status card is all that is required for him to carry a rifle
 
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Scar270 said:
When I teach the firearms safety course I teach that you can have someone else shooting your firearm in any situation you could be as long as they are under your supervision, arms length is what I recommend as it does say direct control. If two of you are in a goose blind side by side I see no problem with it.

People seem stuck that it's ok to hunt with a kid that way, but not an adult. While I realize common sense doesn't have much to do with the law I can't see anywhere in the law it distinguishes between youths and adults when you are the pal holder and have them along shooting.

For what it's worth I'd quite confidently take a hunting partner with a hunting license but no firearm with me and take 2 guns.
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And you said you teach the PAL course ? (genuine question) and would not hesitate to have two guns hunting with two guys one PAL between you?
 
ratherbefishin said:
My son who has the hunter number but not the PAL only decided to come last week, so he will initiate the paperwork for a PAL,but I doubt if he will have it by the time we leave.We're heading way north and with the grizzly population there's no way I;m going to be there with only one rifle...in fact some guys have a loaded 12 guage as well as their rifle within reach when field dressing a moose-in the willows the visability is in feet not yards.Some of those bears have been seen to head toward the sound of a gunshot...they know a gut pile is likely there.I'm not sure of the regulations for my native son though-I seem to think his status card is all that is required for him to carry a rifle
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Been in the willows, ... as I'm sure a few have. If the sons you are bringing are the ones who are less experienced, be good and careful, and good luck !

I once dressed an animal in the willows at last light, by myself, and I was pretty edgy.At one point I took a leak and turned around and the low light had gotten to my eyes, Couldn't see a thing for a about 30 seconds. Damn being in willows like that spooks me out !!!!!
 
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I have been stopped by co's the last couple of years with game and I've never been asked to see a registration certificate.Let's all hope for a majority gov't!
 
pharaoh2 said:
So the last two years I brought a young fellow with me on a couple bird hunts. I let him do the shooting, and he has always been right next to me with my gun. This year he passed his hunter safety test, and is in the starting process of getting his own PAL. But now that he has his own licenses, I wondered about this. Can I allow him to use one of my shotguns and use one myself if he's again right next to me? I figured there would be no problem in the past with the two of us together and only one gun. But is there anything that says I cannot allow him the use of a firearm even under supervision by a licensed shooter?
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Well first off.. the first part of your story is illegal. Second part is sound.

Now that he has his hunting license and PAL, he can legally use one of your firearms, and does not need to no longer be right beside you. You can even lend it to him so he can hunt by himself providing he has the proper class of PAL for said firearm in question.
 
When I teach the firearms safety course I teach that you can have someone else shooting your firearm in any situation you could be as long as they are under your supervision, arms length is what I recommend as it does say direct control.
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"At arms length"is the term used in my Canadians Firearms Course manual to describe direct supervision,not "within earshot".
 
I beleive given the circumstances there can be only one gun between you and he must be in your supervision at all time while handling the firearm.
 
Wow,this thread has me even more confused?

(b) the borrower uses the firearm under the direct and immediate supervision of the person in the same manner in which the person may lawfully use it.

As I understand it in NB at least,Hunter "A" with the PAL and registered guns can lend to hunter"B" that has no PAL.Both can have loaded firearms and "direct and immediate supervision" is open to interpretation?Not at arms lengths,rather in the immediate vicinity?NB COs do not enforce the Registry anyhow,so the only LEOs of concern would be the RCMP on public roads where you wouldn't be hunting or seperated in any case?Now....if you met a mountie in the woods.........hard to say?As long as you can contact you're PAL carrying partner in a reasonaby timely manner,I think you're OK?On the odd chance that you met a mountie in the middle of nowhere where you are not at arm's length,the worst that would likely happen if he was a real prick would be you're partner's evening deerhunt on the adjacent ridge might be interrupted to show the paperwork?Not saying this is to the letter of the law nor intending to spread any mis-information,just that's how it is here,and nobody that I know of looses any sleep over it?

Another case in point,if I were to take 2 non-PAL holders duck hunting,all 3 of us would have my registered and loaded shotguns in the duck blind,no problem.

Buncha F'n CFA foolishness!!
 
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Both can have loaded firearms and "direct and immediate supervision" is open to interpretation?Not at arms lengths,rather in the immediate vicinity?NB COs do not enforce the Registry anyhow,so the only LEOs of concern would be the RCMP on public roads where you wouldn't be hunting or seperated in any case?Now....if you met a mountie in the woods.........hard to say?As long as you can contact you're PAL carrying partner in a reasonaby timely manner,I think you're OK?On the odd chance that you met a mountie in the middle of nowhere where you are not at arm's length,the worst that would likely happen if he was a real prick would be you're partner's evening deerhunt on the adjacent ridge might be interrupted to show the paperwork?Not saying this is to the letter of the law nor intending to spread any mis-information,just that's how it is here,and nobody that I know of looses any sleep over it?
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That may be the way it is where you hunt,but if an RCMP officer decided to interpret direct supervision as at arms length,he could do a lot more than make you produce paperwork.He could lay charges and seize a firearm.
 
grinrgrn said:
Wow,this thread has me even more confused?

(b) the borrower uses the firearm under the direct and immediate supervision of the person in the same manner in which the person may lawfully use it.

As I understand it in NB at least,Hunter "A" with the PAL and registered guns can lend to hunter"B" that has no PAL.Both can have loaded firearms and "direct and immediate supervision" is open to interpretation?Not at arms lengths,rather in the immediate vicinity?NB COs do not enforce the Registry anyhow,so the only LEOs of concern would be the RCMP on public roads where you wouldn't be hunting or seperated in any case?Now....if you met a mountie in the woods.........hard to say?As long as you can contact you're PAL carrying partner in a reasonaby timely manner,I think you're OK?On the odd chance that you met a mountie in the middle of nowhere where you are not at arm's length,the worst that would likely happen if he was a real prick would be you're partner's evening deerhunt on the adjacent ridge might be interrupted to show the paperwork?Not saying this is to the letter of the law nor intending to spread any mis-information,just that's how it is here,and nobody that I know of looses any sleep over it?

Another case in point,if I were to take 2 non-PAL holders duck hunting,all 3 of us would have my registered and loaded shotguns in the duck blind,no problem.

Buncha F'n CFA foolishness!!
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by far the most out to lunch so far!
 
If hunter number 1 with the valid firearms licence and hunting licence is focused on shooting, while hunter #2 with no firearms licence, but in possesion of a valid hunting licence is also engaged in shooting.

Is hunter number 1 directly supervising hunter number 2?

I would beg to suggest that hunter number 1 is no longer directly supervising hunter number 2 because his foucs is on the shooting and not on supervisng and over seeing and therefore no longer having direct control of hunter number 2.

With this sort of interpertation, I would say the risks out weigh the merits of the situation.

Plan ahead get all your paperwork licences etc. in order.

Knowing full well that a PAL takes at least 4 weeks if not 6 to 8 weeks for a first time applicant, I say Johnny Come Lately's are SOL, and can stay home, no matter how well intentioned thay may be.

Either that or come as an observer only.
 
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