African Trophy Hunting

asusual said:
Does the hunting you speak of keep hundreds from starving like the meat and trophy fees do in africa?I would suggest yourself and the other nay sayer go offer even without a gun. Theres one animal in particular you'd have a soft spot for. Ya its given up the freedom of flight and plants its head in the sand to ignore reality
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Hit a nerve sunshine, simply becuase i don't wish to hunt African animals?

As for an aniimal that hides it head in sand, I have no doubt you'd "Sneak" up on it, shoot it, call it sporting, and cause you paid 3,000 to do it, claim you saved a village from starving.

Reality is that not everyone sees things the same, and that is OK.
Do you need a Dr Phil Moment now?
 
srt4u2nv said:
Why reasearch? I would not even know the first place to look for the real answers
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There is this new thing called the "internet"- maybe you have heard of it?:slap:

On this "internet" there is this thing called "google" and it may be a useful tool for research.

On this forum, we have a feature called "search." If you use this and type in "African Hunting" you may find a few threads on this topic already exist.

On these threads, you will probably find posts from people that have addressed these issues. Hopefully you will learn something, and not remain ignorant.
 
Sealhunter, I respect your position in that African hunting is not your thing, and yet you don't find it necessary to criticize those who pursue it.

There is ethical hunting in Africa just as there is here, and there is unethical hunting in Africa, just as there is here. If hunting can be justified here, it can be justified there. If hunting can be criticized there, then it can be equally criticized here. Hunting can be a means of revenue and a tool of game management, and the geo-political boundaries don't have much to do with the behavior of hunters around the world. Some of them you’d love to hunt with, while others you wouldn't give the time of day to. Criticism of legal, ethical hunting, particularly by hunters, regardless of where it is done leaves us more exposed to diminished opportunities at home.
 
Boomer said:
Sealhunter, I respect your position in that African hunting is not your thing, and yet you don't find it necessary to criticize those who pursue it.

There is ethical hunting in Africa just as there is here, and there is unethical hunting in Africa, just as there is here. If hunting can be justified here, it can be justified there. If hunting can be criticized there, then it can be equally criticized here. Hunting can be a means of revenue and a tool of game management, and the geo-political boundaries don't have much to do with the behavior of hunters around the world. Some of them you’d love to hunt with, while others you wouldn't give the time of day to. Criticism of legal, ethical hunting, particularly by hunters, regardless of where it is done leaves us more exposed to diminished opportunities at home.
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That's about the best quote I have ever read, supporting hunting. :cool:
 
Gatehouse said:
There is this new thing called the "internet"- maybe you have heard of it?:slap:

On this "internet" there is this thing called "google" and it may be a useful tool for research.

On this forum, we have a feature called "search." If you use this and type in "African Hunting" you may find a few threads on this topic already exist.

On these threads, you will probably find posts from people that have addressed these issues. Hopefully you will learn something, and not remain ignorant.
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:agree: :sucks:........
 
Boomer said:
Sealhunter, I respect your position in that African hunting is not your thing, and yet you don't find it necessary to criticize those who pursue it.

There is ethical hunting in Africa just as there is here, and there is unethical hunting in Africa, just as there is here. If hunting can be justified here, it can be justified there. If hunting can be criticized there, then it can be equally criticized here. Hunting can be a means of revenue and a tool of game management, and the geo-political boundaries don't have much to do with the behavior of hunters around the world. Some of them you’d love to hunt with, while others you wouldn't give the time of day to. Criticism of legal, ethical hunting, particularly by hunters, regardless of where it is done leaves us more exposed to diminished opportunities at home.
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I was not always that way, I too, came off bold as brass like the initial poster here about how African hunting is not hunting etc. Sometimes still do.

It is not my type of hunting. Some of it I'm sure would be, but not the trophy stuff. That doesn't interest me here, so it doesn't interest me there.

I am not into game ranches where animals are shot inside fences that they cannot jump. I had heard of a few stories about Africa where guys basically drove up to where the animals were, stepped out, and dropped the animal 50 yrds away. Now that happens here as well, but I wouldn't call it the hunt of a lifetime. And as you can tell, here I start again, so I'll just stop.
There are legitimate hunts as well, I'd say they outweigh the rest.

If it's legal, helping people and wildlife,then go for it, it's all good.
If the only thing getting a boost is your ego though, some people will say,
Hey, it's legal so why not? others will say just because something is legal doesn't mean you should, or more specifically, that I should.

I'm out of this thread, and hope that you guys who are African hunters can see, whether it be deserved or not, there are a people who think the that the Safari's are nothing more than Rich snobs compensating. Taj=ke the time to dispell the misconceptions, and also accept that it is not for everyone.

You think this is bad? Come to the hospital when I bring my hunting Album.
Just as well I showed up with 666 on my head and Jesus in a wheelbarrow
 
srt4u2nv said:
I still dont believe in Trophy hunting but there are some aspects of African hunting that are positives and I can respect that.
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I don't get this...there are some positive aspects to the hunt, and yet if the hunter chooses to keep a trophy, a physical reminder of a pivotal moment in his life, there's something wrong with that? I've heard others state that they were against trophy hunting, and in almost every case they were totally unaware of what trophy hunting is. The only feature that distinguishes a trophy hunter is the fact that he is selective. He sets a minimum standard for the animal that he shoots, whether that be a minimum size, minimum age, specific ###, whatever. The animal's meat is still utilized. Nothing goes to waste...especially in Africa.

Since you seem to reduce everything to its bare dry core, wondering what "purpose" the hunt serves, consider this: wouldn't it be wasteful NOT to keep the horns, the skin, the skull, or whatever other trophy the species in question provides? You, or others, are eating the critter anyways. I shot a beautiful bear last fall...probably the finest trophy of my hunting life. We had some of him for dinner tonight. And now I can look up, see him in full life-size in the corner of my den, and re-live that hunt. Should I have left that pelt out on the tundra just because it seems to offend some people?

I didn't shoot that bear because the population needed to be controlled, although in many places it does need control. I didn't shoot him because I would starve without his meat although I do enjoy eating it. I didn't even shoot him for the trophy, to "stroke my ego", as much as you may think otherwise. I hunted to experience the hunt, and the killing of the bear was the natural and proper culmination to that experience. I passed several other bears up, because they were not what I was willing to shoot. Shooting him served no "purpose" other than allowing me to experience the hunt in its entirety, and did no harm to the bear as a species, to the environment as a whole, or to my karma. It allowed me to interact with nature in a way that a non-hunter never will.

At some point the armchair naturalists chime in with some drivel about "hunting with a camera" or some such nonsense. Fine...do that...I enjoy wildlife photography and do a fair bit. It gets me outside, I see animals in their natural habitat, and a well-executed photograph even provides a "trophy" of sorts...gee, sorry 'bout that. But to compare it to hunting? Please!!! Nature photography, bird-watching, etc. are, to hunting, what watching a football game on TV is to playing football...a pale imitation of the real thing.

Have a nice day...however vapid and soulless it may be for you.

John
 
sealhunter said:
I am not into game ranches where animals are shot inside fences that they cannot jump.
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Ya ranches 4,000+ hectares in size. Bigger than most tracks of crown land in any province. Its only boxed in there if you ask for it to be, same as here. I've been thinking all along that going to africa was something anyone could do and it was no real big deal. I see know it was something very special because some are held back from going by the greatest force of all,,,IGNORANCE:wave:


In 13 days saw one fence. Ya a monster, 18" tall,pulled across a locals hut door to keep the chickens out while hubby slept... Oh brother
 
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I wonder what percentage of deer hunters in Canada hunt along rural fence lines and what percentage of Canadian hunters hunt in true wilderness? A wilderness hunt is IMHO always a better experience, and due to the places I've lived 99% of my hunting has been in the wilderness.

Africa was no different. We were in true wilderness with hippo filled rivers, mountains, and endless grass lands. The nearest village was more than 2 hours away. Our hunting block required a half dozen river crossings, and we put in lots of miles on foot. Some African game is only useful as a trophy, I wouldn't line up to eat a hyena for instance and some of it is very good. My wife sticks by her statement that the warthog I shot was the best meat she's ever eaten. As for being the ego trip of the wealthy, I hardly fall into that category. The fellow who shared the hunt with us, could be considered wealthy; he built up a company from a one man show and at the time he sold it he employed 450 people. Then again, in his circle he doesn't stand out except that he is one of the most likeable, generous, and humble people I have ever met. He is a passionate hunter who hunts much of the US southwest and most years takes on atleast one big hunting trip, be it Africa, Alaska, or Canada. The cost of a safari is intimidating, particularly for a working man, but for the passionate big game hunter there is nothing that compares to the African safari although I believe the Yukon and Alaska would be close.

I didn't shoot all the game I was entitled to, but I was there and I can say, yes I saw zebra, but passed it up, I saw baboons, but passed it up, I saw a hartebeest, but passed it up, and I passed up a second wildebeest. I would not have passed up a second buffalo, but the hunting conditions due to the long grass were difficult, and a second opportunity did not present itself. I would have dearly loved to take a lion because the lion is so representative of Africa. Stalking a lion on foot would be unbelievable. We walked on the same ground as elephants, lions, and dangerous snakes. We were charged by an elephant. A young hippo ran along side the truck close enough that my wife could feel its breath. I would like to say you can't buy that kind of experience, but the truth is you can, book an African hunting safari. A photo safari by comparison is disappointing. You are trapped in the vehicle and can only get out at designated rest points. Yes, you see game, but it is not the same as seeing game when you are on the ground.
 
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asusual said:
Ya ranches 4,000+ hectares in size. Bigger than most tracks of crown land in any province. Its only boxed in there if you ask for it to be, same as here. I've been thinking all along that going to africa was something anyone could do and it was no real big deal. I see know it was something very special because some are held back from going by the greatest force of all,,,IGNORANCE:wave:


In 13 days saw one fence. Ya a monster, 18" tall,pulled across a locals hut door to keep the chickens out while hubby slept... Oh brother
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Ignorance my friend is yourself.
As I said, the fenced in areas i'm sure are not as popular or pevelant as the non fenced in. But if you try and say that All hunting is done on 4000 hectares no fences etc etc etc, you are full of ####.

I know for a fact, and will even take pics if you like when I'm in Africa in March of game ranches that are not as big as 1km by 1km with a 12 ft fence.
I did not say that was the majority, (if you manged to read my post)

In 13 days you didn't see a fence. 13 days. Wow. You should write a book on Africa.

I was in BC for 3 months, up around Fort Nelson, didn't see the ocean once.
Hmmm, guess that BC ocean stuff is just bull####.

After a year in Alberta I hadn't seen a Grizzly bear. Guess they don't exist.
 
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You take pics of all those fences. I'll wait on baited breath. Africa is what you make of it. SEALHUNTER when were you in africa last?
 
jjohnwm said:
I don't get this...there are some positive aspects to the hunt, and yet if the hunter chooses to keep a trophy, a physical reminder of a pivotal moment in his life, there's something wrong with that? I've heard others state that they were against trophy hunting, and in almost every case they were totally unaware of what trophy hunting is. The only feature that distinguishes a trophy hunter is the fact that he is selective. He sets a minimum standard for the animal that he shoots, whether that be a minimum size, minimum age, specific ###, whatever. The animal's meat is still utilized. Nothing goes to waste...especially in Africa.

Since you seem to reduce everything to its bare dry core, wondering what "purpose" the hunt serves, consider this: wouldn't it be wasteful NOT to keep the horns, the skin, the skull, or whatever other trophy the species in question provides? You, or others, are eating the critter anyways. I shot a beautiful bear last fall...probably the finest trophy of my hunting life. We had some of him for dinner tonight. And now I can look up, see him in full life-size in the corner of my den, and re-live that hunt. Should I have left that pelt out on the tundra just because it seems to offend some people?

I didn't shoot that bear because the population needed to be controlled, although in many places it does need control. I didn't shoot him because I would starve without his meat although I do enjoy eating it. I didn't even shoot him for the trophy, to "stroke my ego", as much as you may think otherwise. I hunted to experience the hunt, and the killing of the bear was the natural and proper culmination to that experience. I passed several other bears up, because they were not what I was willing to shoot. Shooting him served no "purpose" other than allowing me to experience the hunt in its entirety, and did no harm to the bear as a species, to the environment as a whole, or to my karma. It allowed me to interact with nature in a way that a non-hunter never will.

At some point the armchair naturalists chime in with some drivel about "hunting with a camera" or some such nonsense. Fine...do that...I enjoy wildlife photography and do a fair bit. It gets me outside, I see animals in their natural habitat, and a well-executed photograph even provides a "trophy" of sorts...gee, sorry 'bout that. But to compare it to hunting? Please!!! Nature photography, bird-watching, etc. are, to hunting, what watching a football game on TV is to playing football...a pale imitation of the real thing.

Have a nice day...however vapid and soulless it may be for you.

John
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I cant even read what you wrote :runaway:

I dont agree with hunting only for a trophy its not hunting to me unless YOU can use basically every part of your quarry.......leaving the body of the animal in Africa just to take the head just doesnt sit right with me.

I would take a trophy of a whitetail because I feel I have given the animal the most respect by eating its flesh for nurishment buy leaving the bones and guts to be returned to nature by coyotes and all the other animals that benifit from the minerals obtained from the endtrails and bones of the whitetail.

I also dont believe in hunting within fences or game ranches thats the worst thing I have ever heard you might as well go down to the local beef farm and shoot a cow for #### sakes.
 
March is my first time, I am visiting lifelong friends there who own a ranch.
I have a lot of friends from Africa, actually one of them is here sat beside me right now. She said that much of the hunting stories and stuff I showed her on here is true as far as the hunting goes. She disagrees a bit with where the money goes, but says it does go back into Africa, but probably not doing the wonders some may think it is, or even told it is, but better than if there were none.

She said there are definitely game ranches that are fenced and many poeple hunt them at Super $$$. Basically, the Ranchowner and PH know what animals are there, and you tell them what you want. You get that animal for a price. It is more like picking your animal out of a catalogue and then going to sears to find it.

The majority of hunts are not conducted in this manner, and apparently certain animals don't get "graded" oer something if they are ranch animals, so many opt not to do it this way.

She also said that you have to be wary of the guys who are just looking to make a $$$ and don't know the laws. Many people have left without their money and without their animals.
 
She said there are definitely game ranches that are fenced and many poeple hunt them at Super $$$. Basically, the Ranchowner and PH know what animals are there, and you tell them what you want. You get that animal for a price. It is more like picking your animal out of a catalogue and then going to sears to find it.
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Game ranches like that exist in Saskatchewan,but they make up a very small percentage of the hunting that goes on in Saskatchewan.Then again,since I have never actually been on one of those game ranches,perhaps they don't really exist after all.;)
 
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srt4u2nv said:
I cant even read what you wrote :runaway:

I dont agree with hunting only for a trophy its not hunting to me unless YOU can use basically every part of your quarry.......leaving the body of the animal in Africa just to take the head just doesnt sit right with me.

I would take a trophy of a whitetail because I feel I have given the animal the most respect by eating its flesh for nurishment buy leaving the bones and guts to be returned to nature by coyotes and all the other animals that benifit from the minerals obtained from the endtrails and bones of the whitetail.
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SO, it's okay for you to kill a whitetail, take the trophy and eat the meat- But not okay for you to kill an animal, take the trophy, eat some of the meat and give the rest of the meat to someone else to eat?

That's doesn't sound logical.

Would you never intend to share the whitetail meat with your wife or family or your buddy or neighbor?


I also dont believe in hunting within fences or game ranches thats the worst thing I have ever heard you might as well go down to the local beef farm and shoot a cow for s**t sakes.
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If you don't want to do it, don't participate in hunts in fenced areas of Africa, Saskatchewan, Ontario, USA, etc. Only go on wilderness hunts. Meantime, can you tell us about your hunting experiences? DO you only hunt in wilderness areas?
 
srt4u2nv said:
Why reasearch? I would not even know the first place to look for the real answers so in turn I used this vast community of knowlege to help shed some light for me........face it if we all knew everything about everything there would be no forums or even internet for that matter so relax bud unless you got some info for me then all your doing is trolling in this thread........not one post from you has been helpful thus far.

If you want to share insite positive or negative please do so guys but stop posting its not worth your time thats just pathetic......the time it took you to type that you could have clicked the X at the top of your screen or even better added to this tread which could be used in the future for people to find out the facts of African hunting.

grow up
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Go to Safari Books and look up books on African Hunting. You will have nough to read for about ten years!:rolleyes:

Then you can start on the rest of the web!
 
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