Building an AR is harder then I thoguht... Help with 300m build please?

J

Jeff000

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Ok, so I thought building an AR would be easy. But I didn't realize there were literally endless combinations of parts to choose from.

I like going to the range and shooting, I like longer range (300m).
I have a CZ550 in 22-250 for gophers, but at the range it heats up too fast. (17 hmr for close squeaks).

I figured at first building this wouldnt be too hard, reading posts on here it seemed simple enough, but umm.... ya I am lost and just started.

I see AR's that have a nice scope and bipod on them on here fairly often, but many of them to me are umm overboard on the military look scale.

Budget for me is, well lets say 2000 without the scope, but if I can do it cheaper then thats all the better.
I know a longer barrel would be best, but could I get away with a 14.5" barrel? Shorter?

The lower is the part that I register right? Can I have more then one upper for each lower?

And yes I know a bolt action would be cheaper and probably more accurate, but I am pretty sure I want a SA. And would be nice to have an AR now incase they make it like 12(6) then I will at least be grandfathered right?

Thanks for any help.
 
There is no provision in the current law for additional grandfathering. If an OIC is used to prohibit any new firearms, there is no alternative to confiscation. There is no legal requirement for compensation.
You can buy a complete rifle for less that your limit.
Depending on where you source parts and what you pay for them, you might or might not be able to assemble one for less than buying a complete rifle. Assorted, miscellaneous parts may or may not fit together as well as the parts of a complete commercial rifle.
A good 14.5" carbine will shoot well at 300m.
Right now in the EE there is a new Colt factory Delta H-Bar, with scope and aluminum case for $1750. Might not be the rifle you are looking for, but it would be hard to assemble a rifle like this from parts for less.
 
I suspect that he is referring to the multitude of accessories and custom touches popular with Mirror Kommandos.
 
tiriaq said:
There is no provision in the current law for additional grandfathering. If an OIC is used to prohibit any new firearms, there is no alternative to confiscation. There is no legal requirement for compensation.
You can buy a complete rifle for less that your limit.
Depending on where you source parts and what you pay for them, you might or might not be able to assemble one for less than buying a complete rifle. Assorted, miscellaneous parts may or may not fit together as well as the parts of a complete commercial rifle.
A good 14.5" carbine will shoot well at 300m.
Right now in the EE there is a new Colt factory Delta H-Bar, with scope and aluminum case for $1750. Might not be the rifle you are looking for, but it would be hard to assemble a rifle like this from parts for less.
Click to expand...

Damn, no grandfathering that would suck. Would they seriously come to everyones door and expect them to surrender their guns? To me they would have to do a grandfathering type thing if they did anything.

Good to know 14.5 will still shoot well at 300 too.

I did see the colt for sale, but it looks like a longer barrel, and I wasnt sure if that scope was good for what I wanted.
I also thought I needed that rail on the bottom of the hand guard to mount the bipod, which that doesnt have.
But I think me not knowing enough about the gun made me initially think most of the parts on it were not what I needed.

DaveMachine said:
So why choose to build a rifle like an AR if you're worried about it looking "too military"?
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I am not worried about it looking military. I just don't want all the military accessories that have no use to me. I guess I could have worded that better in my op.

tiriaq put it best I guess, the mirror kommando accessories.
 
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Last weekend I used a Springfield M1A in a 2 day longrange course out to 300m with iron sights. If you're open to .308, try the Norinco M14. A friend of mine has one and shoots out to 300m with iron sights no prob., and it was way cheaper than an M1A. Another guy in the course used an AR-15 with a 20" hbar and the rifle sights. He didn't have a bipod. He used a bench rest. He passed the course with no issues. Hope this helps you out.
 
greentips said:
THe effective range of 14.5" M4 is 500m against point target, 600m against area target.
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According to whom? The US military? Canadian military states the effective range of an iron sighted C7 as 300m for a point target, 600m for section fire. Or 400m with an Elcan. Of course I don't agree, thanks to service rifle I know that I can effectively engage a stationary or advancing target out to 500m.

I wonder what kind of terminal ballistics an M4 has at 400m? It can certainly punch paper at that distance, but will it perform its intended role effectively at that distance?

Jeff000, since you want to engage out to 300m and seem to looking for a general purpose carbine than I'd recommend you go with a 16" midlength, it's a good compromise. More compact, but suitable for engaging in close quarters or out to 500m with a decent optic. You're rigth though, you have so many choices with an AR it's hard to decide what to build, that's probably how most of us end up with more than one. I have three AR's and a spare upper that I'm tempted to buy another lower for.
 
greentips said:
THe effective range of 14.5" M4 is 500m against point target, 600m against area target.
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good to know! i just built mine and taking her out today for the first time

this was my first AR build, and i went in knowing pretty much nothing (im military so i knew generally all the parts i needed, just didnt know how theyd work with each other). Built the whole thing from a stripped lower and parts and assembled over an afternoon with a gerber, swiss army knife, nail clippers, set of small screw drivers, and the handle to my glock 81 knife with instructions from an ar15 site (i wouldnt recommend this...but i was impatient to get it all together and see what she looked like!)

I was going for the tac-ed out M4 look with quad rail handguards, 6pos stock, and eotech 512 for 3-gunning. If you're set on building it, id say build your lower pretty standard (you could order a really nice trigger for it, and get a stock suited to your eye/style of shooting), and then build your upper with heavy barrel, flat top (for mounting your optics) and so on.

it does sound simple, and its pretty rewarding right now to just have my gun built BY ME!
we'll see if i kill myself on the range later today :rolleyes: if i made a mistake somewhere..

cheers!
 
If you are looking for a good semi in .223 that you could do that distance at the range and take gopher shooting I'd recommend either the SL-8 or a gently used Sig.

For longer range with an AR I'd stick to a 20" barrel, especially if you are off the bipod most of the time.
The only things you need to be concerned about for accurate shooting in an AR are: 1) Decent Barrel 2) Decent Trigger 3) Float the barrel 4) Quality Ammo
After that it is all fluff and feathers for the shooter.
 
Looking up the SL-8 it seems viable. Although I cant seem to find a price anywhere. Its ugly as sin, but thats ok. Seems to be a good shooter from the limited reviews I can find.
And there are too many sigs for me to know what one you are talking about.


I know a long barrel is better, I have a 26" mofo on my 22-250. Was thinking something like a 14.5 or 16 would still be good for 300 m and in, and be lighter and well a little bit fun. Would probably put the shots into my hand a little bit more.
How do I free float the barrel of an AR though? I always though the hand guard was attached to the barrel?
 
The Sig I was refering to was the Classic Green/Black Special.

You can float the barrel of an AR a number of ways:

- Floated handguard - this has the same look as standard AR handguards, but has a float tube under it that the barrel nut attaches through.
Good if you want to keep that stock AR look. I think they only make them for 20" barrels

- Float tube ('bloop tube') - bare bones, (usually Aluminum) round tube, sometimes with venting holes or cuts and a grip texture or relief cuts.
(Dlask, Armalite, Hogue to name a couple make them)

- RIS/RAS - Picatiny floated handguard designed with rails to carry accessesories. Quite a bit more than the regular handguard or bloop tube option, as it is designed primarily for military applications. A necessity if you want to look 'checked' in front of the mirror, or if you plan on attending a two way range in the near future.
 
Leg said:
According to whom? The US military? Canadian military states the effective range of an iron sighted C7 as 300m for a point target, 600m for section fire. Or 400m with an Elcan. Of course I don't agree, thanks to service rifle I know that I can effectively engage a stationary or advancing target out to 500m.

I wonder what kind of terminal ballistics an M4 has at 400m? It can certainly punch paper at that distance, but will it perform its intended role effectively at that distance?
Click to expand...

According to the US military - M16A2 effective range against point target is 550m, 800 meter for area target.

In general, it needs about 2000 fps to penetrate soft armour. I guess if you take the ballistic table out for a quick look, it is about 300m.
 
Jeff000 said:
Damn, no grandfathering that would suck. Would they seriously come to everyones door and expect them to surrender their guns? To me they would have to do a grandfathering type thing if they did anything.
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Blasphamy. No more prohibition and no more grandfathering. Remove the long gun registry and no more prohibited status on any firearm.
 
Leg said:
I wonder what kind of terminal ballistics an M4 has at 400m? It can certainly punch paper at that distance, but will it perform its intended role effectively at that distance?
Click to expand...

The terminal performance with any cartridge decreases with the loss of velocity which is usually connected to the range of the target being engaged. I doubt the terminal effects would be stellar. Then again, if you want to stand out at 400 while I plant rounds on target be my guest. If the impact is equal to or greater than that of a paint ball marker, I'm moving...

TDC
 
mrsmitty said:
Blasphamy. No more prohibition and no more grandfathering. Remove the long gun registry and no more prohibited status on any firearm.
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How does not having a long gun registry keep other non-long guns from being prohibited.

Only property rights can save us.
 
TDC said:
The terminal performance with any cartridge decreases with the loss of velocity which is usually connected to the range of the target being engaged. I doubt the terminal effects would be stellar. Then again, if you want to stand out at 400 while I plant rounds on target be my guest. If the impact is equal to or greater than that of a paint ball marker, I'm moving...

TDC
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To be honest, I won't be challenging anyone beyond 300m with a 5.56 alone - there is a difference between known range shooting and field shooting. Let's put terminal ballistc aside for now - the exterior ballistic becomes challenging once the 300m is past - the bullet drop is getting much more as every meter passes. Unless you are very good at doping wind and range estimation ( or someone is spotting you or you have a laser range finder) , using a "typical" setup like ACOG or Elcan is not as easy as it sounds - if the milk and butter is 400 to 600, it is the time for a DMR with mil-dot ( or someone who practise a lot of field shooting at this range with an ACOG) or a LMG.
 
beltfed said:
The Sig I was refering to was the Classic Green/Black Special.

You can float the barrel of an AR a number of ways:

- Floated handguard - this has the same look as standard AR handguards, but has a float tube under it that the barrel nut attaches through.
Good if you want to keep that stock AR look. I think they only make them for 20" barrels

- Float tube ('bloop tube') - bare bones, (usually Aluminum) round tube, sometimes with venting holes or cuts and a grip texture or relief cuts.
(Dlask, Armalite, Hogue to name a couple make them)

- RIS/RAS - Picatiny floated handguard designed with rails to carry accessesories. Quite a bit more than the regular handguard or bloop tube option, as it is designed primarily for military applications. A necessity if you want to look 'checked' in front of the mirror, or if you plan on attending a two way range in the near future.
Click to expand...

I like the Float Tube, but seems they dont allow bipod mounting? One thing I like is they are way cheaper then the other two options, or seems to be anyways.


After a couple searches I am still not really sure what sig you are referring to :(
 
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