Suooooomi
- Thread starter Spencer
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Finished
It was hard work, but I've learned a lot from doing this. At the start I thought I might have bitten off more than I could chew, and I had a couple of moments when I was almost certain of it. Knowing what I know now I think I could put another one together a lot quicker.
I'm having a week off before starting on my next effort. I'm going to make a MKII sten that takes Suomi drum mags.
It was hard work, but I've learned a lot from doing this. At the start I thought I might have bitten off more than I could chew, and I had a couple of moments when I was almost certain of it. Knowing what I know now I think I could put another one together a lot quicker.
I'm having a week off before starting on my next effort. I'm going to make a MKII sten that takes Suomi drum mags.
b-wingpilot
CGN Regular
- Location
- Sherwood Park
Nice work! Let us know how it shoots
Thanks It shoots very well, I gave it a quick work out which I described on the previous page, but I will give it a serious test this week.
What I'm begining to wonder now is what's it worth ? Not that I could sell it as I don't have a manufacturers licence, but I would get one and make more if it were worth my while. I could also make a non restricted version ,which is only a matter of changing the barrel and jacket. It could be returned to the standard length at any time.
It shoots very well, I gave it a quick work out which I described on the previous page, but I will give it a serious test this week. What I'm begining to wonder now is what's it worth ? Not that I could sell it as I don't have a manufacturers licence, but I would get one and make more if it were worth my while. I could also make a non restricted version ,which is only a matter of changing the barrel and jacket. It could be returned to the standard length at any time.
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b-wingpilot
CGN Regular
- Location
- Sherwood Park
Try a PPS-43 next. The kits are about $70 state-side, plus another $100 for a receiver flat and trunnion and it should make for a cheap and easy build. If you want to manufacture and sell SMGs I think the '43 is a great model to build. Assuming you have an endless supply of cheap kits and the necessary jigs, then it would probably take only a couple hours per gun. Sell them for ~$500 and they would sell like hotcakes.
The ppsh 43 kits are cheap in the US for good reason, the reason is that they are expensive to make into a legal gun. None of the kits I have seen come with barrels, and by the time you get them up here, IF YOU RECIEVE THEM AT ALL, they will have cost a lot more than that. That unfortuinately is only the start of the problems.
The next thing that comes to mind is how the hell do you make one of these things semi auto without using a closed bolt striker system ? The Americans use remington shotgun trigger groups for these which is another expense. I don't think it would be possible to build one for $500 let alone sell a complete and registered one for that.
The next problem to overcome is the issue of what part is the reciever / frame ?
If it turns out to be the lower ( and I think it's quite likely it would be ) it would not be worth using a kit at all, you would have to make the whole gun. Apart from all the above I would not consider making closed bolt guns out of open bolt ones as a matter of principle.
The suomi's are complex to build because they were never designed to be a cheap mass produced weapon. Every one is different, for example it is not possible to take a barrel from one and just stick it on another, everything has to be hand fitted to the reciever. But the nice things about the suomi's is that they are easily made semi auto only, without using a #### in the tube affair, and there is no doubt in my mind which part is the reciever.
PS, I think stens are the way to go to make a nice more affordable smgs. They are rough and ready, but they have great character and nostalgia, everyone knows what a sten is. Tell someone you have a sten and they would most likely say "cool," tell them you have a ppsh 43 or a suomi for that matter and they would probably say " a what ? " I have some good ideas for open bolt stens, like a mirror image one for starters.
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Anyone with a firearms licence is allowed to make a firearm that licence allows possesion of, but to sell firearms they have made they must have a manufacturers licence. Whether they could give it away or not I could not say
I have a licence that allows me to do everything apart from manufacture firearms. I did not tick the manufacture firearms box due to the cost.
b-wingpilot
CGN Regular
- Location
- Sherwood Park
Whoops
I thought was select-fire like the ppsh. You're right, that one would be kinda tough.Thinking of selling any
? I was hoping to add a semi-sten to the que of projects once my lathe gets fixed.
From what I understand you can't make a habit out of it. If you made three and sold one, that wouldn't be manufacturing as I understand. If you made batches then it would take on a commercial aspect... I'm going to recheck that though.
Just about every part in a kit, including the magazines, would be subject to US State Dept. export restrictions. What are the chances of a licenced US exporter getting issued the appropriate licence for exporting machine gun parts? In other threads, it has been pretty well established that importing the magazines, either already altered to 5 rds, or as parts is problematic.
It could be important to keep in mind that the "I" in ITAR stands for "International", and that Canada, as well as the US, is a signatory.
Basing an activity on parts and parts kits that just somehow happen to make it to Canada in a paper free manner might not be a good idea.
Itar is a big deal and the US is very unlikely to allow the export of MG kits..... and parts
Just like canada is unlikely to allow the import of firearms parts that are for use in a FA ONLY (ie the Orig sten bolt is not used on the APPROVED semi sten) you need the have FA or CA on your pal and special import papers
Now there ARE sten kits in canada legally our gov chopped a few up !
as for the other kits not likely
BUT i suppose you could buy a registered FA/CA and have it cut up for parts.......
Just like canada is unlikely to allow the import of firearms parts that are for use in a FA ONLY (ie the Orig sten bolt is not used on the APPROVED semi sten) you need the have FA or CA on your pal and special import papers
Now there ARE sten kits in canada legally our gov chopped a few up !
as for the other kits not likely
BUT i suppose you could buy a registered FA/CA and have it cut up for parts.......
Sten kits of known Cdn. origin have been offered for sale.
If an open bolt Sten design is approved, this would make some parts acceptable for import for use on a restricted (or non-restricted) semi auto, apart from those intended for use in an already registered 12(2) or (3). As far as I know, no open bolt semi auto Sten design uses an unaltered original bolt. Import into Canada has little to do with export from the US, apart from the fact that a Cdn. import permit has to be sent to the licenced US exporter.
Unless a parts kit has come from a cut up 12(2) or (3) gun, there could always be the question asked of how the kit got into the country.
Mk. III Sten kits have sold in the US for as little a 3/$100.
There are probably folks in the US who don't know any better than to put parts in a box and mail them. Taking advantage of an individual's ignorance, and allowing him to risk prosecution is questionable. Putting the parts under or inside the spare wheel of one's car and driving back is just asking for it.
As far as manufacturing goes, making and eventually selling a one-off is not likely manufacturing. Making items with the express intent of selling them would clearly be manufacturing.
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