Competition vs. Duty Pistols

JN made it clear in the first few posts that his question was regarding the usefullness of certain types of pistols for IPSC Production Division...

Since none of your post add any value to that particular topic...why don't you give us all a break :rolleyes: and move on.

If you want to continue your discussion on ND's and how careless our LEO's are and how much you know about Glocks...by all means feel free to start another thread...

Regards

TDC said:
If the firing pin safety was indeed worn and defective then the ND in question is operator error. Ensuring the safety devices on Glocks are functional is part of every field strip and clean. Personally I don't buy it. Glocks are not "pre cocked". The striker is under a small amount of spring pressure when in the forward position. There isn't enough force to detonate a round. This minimal force ensures the striker remains in contact with the crucible sear/trigger bar and aids in keeping the trigger in a forward state.

While we're here. I never said anything about knowing everything, somehow others found those words. Oh, and when were you going to get back to my question regarding "other tactical" uses for a safety/selector that is capable of selecting safe on a rifle. I'm sure you remember that discussion. Myself and others are still waiting for your response..

TDC
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jerichoholic_ninja said:
While reading reviews about Sig Sauer pistols, people compliment their quality while others criticize them as being "duty" pistols. How is a duty pistol compromised in terms of competition? A person's life may depend on a duty pistol so wouldn't a duty pistol incorporate all of the shooting advantages in a competition pistol plus more?
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Way back to the original question. I think most agencies would examine the requirements for thier pistol much the same way that they would look at purchasing other equipment like cars. They would want something that thier budget can support, reliable, easy to maintain and adequate for service. While thier life might depend on the pistol it also depends on good tires and brakes and myriad of other things.
An amateur ipsc enthusiast would pick whatever his budget can afford (do we really need milk for the kids?) with whatever enhancements (oh I can take a paper route, think of the exercise honey, plus the accessories (do you think the bank could do a third mortgage for my ghost setup.

:)
 
jasonburnsdundee said:
Way back to the original question. I think most agencies would examine the requirements for thier pistol much the same way that they would look at purchasing other equipment like cars. They would want something that thier budget can support, reliable, easy to maintain and adequate for service. While thier life might depend on the pistol it also depends on good tires and brakes and myriad of other things.
An amateur ipsc enthusiast would pick whatever his budget can afford (do we really need milk for the kids?) with whatever enhancements (oh I can take a paper route, think of the exercise honey, plus the accessories (do you think the bank could do a third mortgage for my ghost setup.

:)
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Good point Jason. Money can sometimes (isn't it always) an issue. Our department is going with a popular duty gun..in DAO,...the HK P2000 in 9mm. Ease of use,...reliability,..and long service life. Accurate enough.
I would have thought they would have gone with a cheaper duty type gun,..like the M&P. I would like to mention that although I would have prefered a DA/SA or LEM in DA,.. this gun could be competitive in IDPA,..or even IPSC given the right user. Area 7 L10 winner this year was Larry Houck,.an HK User BTW. BUT,..for a duty gun that is used probably just for qualification once a year,...I would say something light and reliable over a kick ass competition gun.

***QUICK,..some one bring up Dave Sevigny,..or the guy that beat him this year..LOL:p
 
question about sights. Freedom Ventures mentioned target sights and those used for duty pistols and I wonder why duty pistol sights usually useless for anything further than point blank? I have Tanfoglio Witness Custom in 45ACP that FV sold me a year ago. That thing has target sights, very accurate pistol and beautiful trigger, I am not comparing to IPSC racing machines but all untweaked other 1911's that went through my hands. Anywyas, back to question - target sights are great thing for bullseye but very bad for carrying or doing some drills. That vertical rear sight blade sort of cutting my hands if I ever use reverse grip for operating slide. It also catches clothing if I try draw from inside the pants gangsta carry. Walther P22 on the other hand has all the adjustments (windage/elevation) and night dots and is very "low drag/high speed" shape. And I used to hit 10/10 still silhouettes from 85 yards away. Am I missing something? And another question - I thought sights can be replaced with something to shooter's taste using the same dovetail.

Just please do not call me that same sheat you beat TDC with, I know I am inexperienced but I think I can question whatever you IPSC guru's say here. So, here is another question - how is that primer detonated with hammer dropping from half-####? I thought there shouldn't be enough kinetic energy? This is not Lee Enfield but modern pistol.

Anyways, those are the questions I got while reading this thread and I would appreciate some input.
 
LA SWAT and SIS both got kimbers.
acording to my guns and ammo mags

SWAT got them first the kimber went to SIS and made CCWs for them.

you can order the sis and swat models from them.
 
22lr said:
question about sights. Freedom Ventures mentioned target sights and those used for duty pistols and I wonder why duty pistol sights usually useless for anything further than point blank? I have Tanfoglio Witness Custom in 45ACP that FV sold me a year ago. That thing has target sights, very accurate pistol and beautiful trigger, I am not comparing to IPSC racing machines but all untweaked other 1911's that went through my hands. Anywyas, back to question - target sights are great thing for bullseye but very bad for carrying or doing some drills. That vertical rear sight blade sort of cutting my hands if I ever use reverse grip for operating slide. It also catches clothing if I try draw from inside the pants gangsta carry. Walther P22 on the other hand has all the adjustments (windage/elevation) and night dots and is very "low drag/high speed" shape. And I used to hit 10/10 still silhouettes from 85 yards away. Am I missing something? And another question - I thought sights can be replaced with something to shooter's taste using the same dovetail.

Just please do not call me that same sheat you beat TDC with, I know I am inexperienced but I think I can question whatever you IPSC guru's say here. So, here is another question - how is that primer detonated with hammer dropping from half-####? I thought there shouldn't be enough kinetic energy? This is not Lee Enfield but modern pistol.

Anyways, those are the questions I got while reading this thread and I would appreciate some input.
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Ok I will try and give some input. Sights do not have anything to do with the mechanical accuracy of the pistol. Target sights just make it easier to get alignment quicker. Another boring analogy. You can load your gun through a standard magwell, but an oversized bevelled one would make it slightly easier and quicker.

Next question can a gun fire with a light hammer strike. Sure Pistol primers are designed to go off with less kinetic energy than rifle primers.
 
jasonburnsdundee said:
Ok I will try and give some input. Sights do not have anything to do with the mechanical accuracy of the pistol. Target sights just make it easier to get alignment quicker. Another boring analogy. You can load your gun through a standard magwell, but an oversized bevelled one would make it slightly easier and quicker.

Next question can a gun fire with a light hammer strike. Sure Pistol primers are designed to go off with less kinetic energy than rifle primers.
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some duty guns come with decent sites, such as HK USP tactical, nice high profile sites. If anything the worst sites ive found for use in IPSC were duty gun type night sites- they wash out during bright sunlight and seem small and crappy to use.

striker fired guns aside, if you pick a decent "duty" gun for production often times the triggers will smooth out (hopefully) after many many rounds through them, plus youll get use to the DA/SA. Plenty of these guns can be really competetive.
 
Before you jet Sean, what about the Tactical Adjustable sights that are sold on some STI 1911's? Are they the best of both worlds, snag-free, adjustable and durable? Any downsides to these "tactical adjustable" sights or is it marketing fluff?
 
jerichoholic_ninja said:
Before you jet Sean, what about the Tactical Adjustable sights that are sold on some STI 1911's? Are they the best of both worlds, snag-free, adjustable and durable? Any downsides to these "tactical adjustable" sights or is it marketing fluff?
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Like any adjustable sight, there's screws and springs in there. They're smaller than standard target sights, so damaging them is harder, but they won't compare to the bullet-proofness of fixed sights if you wind up using the top of the gun as a hammer. You're right, they are snag-free - low profile and are generally pretty cool. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a match with them either. Remembering your start of the thread, they're for 1911/2011s - so you'd only ever see them in production division on a Para LDA that has a novak cut from the factory.
 
I agree 100% with Sean about adjustable sights, I have had a few Bomars fall apart.

Personally, for after market sights, nothing beats Novak.

Now that being said, I shoot a P226 religiously and it has the factory 3 dots sights. My shot placement is always on and they are always right on target when I bring the gun up on a target while shooting IDPA.

I use this gun for IDPA, PPC and fun shooting.

The factory fixed 3 dots work, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.....!
 
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The way I see it, if the gun works for you, use it. Too many people seem to be hung up on tricked out rigs that rival star trek weapons. I know alot of guys that will smoke long time shooters with regular 1911s with no upgrades of any sort. I've been shooting better than some people with race guns with my G17. The right gun in the right hands is all that matters. I'm sure I will be corrected if I've spoken out of turn, but I don't want jericholic ninja to get caught up in all the hoopla some guys give credit to better shooting as equipment issues. Practice, practice, practice. When you surpass your gun, then mortgage your first born for a star trek phaser.
 
Thanks si###. I'm not terribly worried about getting caught up with acquiring tons of gear. I've been woodshedding this year with a 22/45 that I bought in last year. But stepping up from rimfire, there's a ton of choice and it's hard to figure out what really works and why. Sometimes it's a bit counter-intuitive so it's good to have forums where you can post questions and get different points of view.
 
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