Hello all, I recently purchased a Remington 5R and would like to start rolling my own ammo once I am finished the break in procedure. I plan on getting into competion shooting, and was wondering what primers most of you have had success with? I've been using Federal 210's, and some Winchester's for most of my other rifles. I was wondering if anyone has a better suggestion to go with Varget, and either 168 Nosler Custom's, or 175 SMK's. I have Lapua and Hornady brass. Any ideas what brands might be best to start with? Thanks for your input.
Any recomendations for primers???
- Thread starter dtkb
- Start date
I second the vote for BR2's or 210M's Both good primers.
For brass, hard to beat Lapua... it is about the most consistent, it is the hardest and it lasts forever. Winchester is about the best domestic brass I have found.
Varget is an excellent powder choice but there are many powders that work well. I actually loved using BL-C2.
As for bullets, let the gun tell you want it wants. If you are able to hook up with other 308 shooters to swap bullets for trying, that is the least expensive way to get your hands on multiple samples. My favorite 308 bullet was the 178 grain Amax
As for competitive shooting, what discipline were you planning on getting into? Some disciplines have bullet weight restrictions.
For brass, hard to beat Lapua... it is about the most consistent, it is the hardest and it lasts forever. Winchester is about the best domestic brass I have found.
Varget is an excellent powder choice but there are many powders that work well. I actually loved using BL-C2.
As for bullets, let the gun tell you want it wants. If you are able to hook up with other 308 shooters to swap bullets for trying, that is the least expensive way to get your hands on multiple samples. My favorite 308 bullet was the 178 grain Amax
As for competitive shooting, what discipline were you planning on getting into? Some disciplines have bullet weight restrictions.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
These days I use CCI BR-2s in my target rifle, but there is no big mystery here, choose the mildest primer that will reliably ignite your powder charge. This normally produces the best round to round uniformity, but in all honesty, if you have developed a good load, changing primers will have a minimal effect on your accuracy unless you are bent on shooting in the .1's. My rifle has done it, but I can't do it on demand so I don't even try, I just smile to myself when it happens.
Some of the most accurate shooting I ever did was with a Gaillard barreled .222 and I used Winchester small rifle primers and Win-748 with a 52 gr MK in tweaked Winchester brass.
Choosing good brass is much more critical than deciding on which primer to use. Lapua is the best that is readily available. Winchester is most often considered the best North American brass in terms of hardness and uniformity, but it requires more uniforming and you may observe that more cartridges that fall outside your parameters if you sort your brass by weight than the Lapua stuff.
Some of the most accurate shooting I ever did was with a Gaillard barreled .222 and I used Winchester small rifle primers and Win-748 with a 52 gr MK in tweaked Winchester brass.
Choosing good brass is much more critical than deciding on which primer to use. Lapua is the best that is readily available. Winchester is most often considered the best North American brass in terms of hardness and uniformity, but it requires more uniforming and you may observe that more cartridges that fall outside your parameters if you sort your brass by weight than the Lapua stuff.
Nosler or Lapua brass, berger bullets, BR2 or 210M, then find a powder that it likes.
I was thinking F class open just for the sake of competing and to be around other shooters. I live in Northern Sask., so any contact with other people interested in same hobby would be fun regardless of outcome. I figured the faster twist would better handle the heavier bullets, like 168-178 range, rather than the 156gr restriction for F/TR. Thanks for the tips folks.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Wonderful that you are thinking F class. However, there are changes in the rules that will let you run your 308 against other 308's. Contact Obtunded for any updates.
If you shot in F(O), you would quickly find that you have to be a much better wind driver then most of us given the ballistic shortfall of the 308.
There might even be a factory class at some shoots.
Personally, the 155gr bullets have shot great for me and this will allow you to use this rifle in ANY 308 class. Varget for powder lit with BR2's in Win brass.
Make sure you have that rifle properly bedded.
Jerry
If you shot in F(O), you would quickly find that you have to be a much better wind driver then most of us given the ballistic shortfall of the 308.
There might even be a factory class at some shoots.
Personally, the 155gr bullets have shot great for me and this will allow you to use this rifle in ANY 308 class. Varget for powder lit with BR2's in Win brass.
Make sure you have that rifle properly bedded.
Jerry
Contact Kodiak99317 on the forum. He is also a Sask F-Class shooter and regularly shoots at the Nokomis range.
I am sure he would be glad to have you come out and see what it's all about.
As Jerry stated, to compete in the F-O class you really should look at a 6mm or 6.5 cartridge. The .308 is a great platform to start with to learn to read wind, mirage and get a feel for what is needed to compete. But if you are hard set on staying with a .308 then I would suggest shooting in the F-TR class.
With the .308 boltface, your choices of cartridge upgrades in the future are almost limitless. 6BR, 6 Dasher, 6XC, 6X47, 6.5X47, 6.5-284, etc, etc, etc...all use the 308 sized boltface so upgrading to any of these cartridges is only a barrel and a good gunsmith away.
I am sure he would be glad to have you come out and see what it's all about.
As Jerry stated, to compete in the F-O class you really should look at a 6mm or 6.5 cartridge. The .308 is a great platform to start with to learn to read wind, mirage and get a feel for what is needed to compete. But if you are hard set on staying with a .308 then I would suggest shooting in the F-TR class.
With the .308 boltface, your choices of cartridge upgrades in the future are almost limitless. 6BR, 6 Dasher, 6XC, 6X47, 6.5X47, 6.5-284, etc, etc, etc...all use the 308 sized boltface so upgrading to any of these cartridges is only a barrel and a good gunsmith away.
The DCRA has introduced a "third" classification in F-Class caled "F-Restricted"; it involves shooting any 223 0r 308 bullet. I'm not sure where the PPRA SPRA stand on whether they will recognize it or not.
'know what? who cares. Get a load that works, try a match and I guarantee within a very short time you will know exactly what you want to do without having to listen to my BS
'know what? who cares. Get a load that works, try a match and I guarantee within a very short time you will know exactly what you want to do without having to listen to my BS
Kodiak99317
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan, Canada
If the DCRA adopts the IFCRA rules and I think they are, there are three classes that would be shot at Nokomis (SPRA range) in 2009.
* F-F (308 with 155g max or 223 with 80g max, with a rear bag and with EITHER a bipod or a front rest)
* F/TR (308 or 223 with any bullet, but shot off a bipod and you can use a rear bag too)
* and everthing else falls into F-Open
Primers, whatever you can get it seems these days, you will find it really hard to get F210M anywhere these days As the others have said, CCI, Rem, Win, Rem, Wolf, whatever you can find to light'r up.
* F-F (308 with 155g max or 223 with 80g max, with a rear bag and with EITHER a bipod or a front rest)
* F/TR (308 or 223 with any bullet, but shot off a bipod and you can use a rear bag too)
* and everthing else falls into F-Open
Primers, whatever you can get it seems these days, you will find it really hard to get F210M anywhere these days
As the others have said, CCI, Rem, Win, Rem, Wolf, whatever you can find to light'r up.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
The DCRA has adopted ICFRA TR rules, starting in 2009. We will also be adopting ICFRA F-Class rules at the 6-7 Dec meeting of the Executive; they too will be effective for 2009.
We have the "problem" ("opportunity"?) of two very-similar classes
- F(F) - "Farqhuarson", the original Canadian F-Class
- F/Restricted - ICFRA int'l .223/.308 F-Class, which is known as F/T-R("Tactical Rifle") in the USA
The only real differences, as you say, are:
- F(F) gets to use any means of support for the front of the rifle, just like F(Open), whereas F(Restricted) is only allowed a bipod.
- F(F) is limited to the same bullet weights (81/156) as Target Rifle; F(Restricted)
Now it is an open question whether F(F) and F(R) are so similar that they ought to be rolled into one (but which one?), or whether they are different enough that "merging" them would be unfair (or otherwise make shooters unhappy).
The DCRA is quite open about offering new styles of shooting in the national championship match that it runs, though there is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem that you can't run a class if nobody (or not enough) show up to shoot it. In addition to "TR", the DCRA has successfully introduced F(Open), and F(Farqhuarson).
The DCRA has unsuccessfully offered "TR/M" (as in, Target Rifle fired with a military rifle, such as a C-7/AR-15), and also "TR-O" (Target Rifle Optical - what the Americans would call an "Any/Any Rifle"). If you offer something and nobody (or not enough) people shoot it, then sooner or later you have to allow that maybe it isn't time for it yet.
Look for an outreach campaign quite soon now, to see if there are enough people interested in shooting F(Restricted) at the DCRA's 2009 Canadian Fullbore Rifle Championships. If people are serious about shooting it, the DCRA is serious about offering it...!
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
As much as I hate to say this, the issue with what class to offer for 308/223 shooters may boil down to the US. Having had some pretty heated debates with US shooters, it seems again, their way or the highway.
They have little interest in the roots of F (F) and have forged ahead with any bullet and bipod required (F-TR). If the majority of countries adopt this format, then we will have to join or support two small groups in Canada.
Or we could just say lump it. When you shoot in Canada, you shoot by our rules/original intent of this class of shooting. We only have F(F) and let travelling shooters deal with the issues of F(TR).
I really don't like it but that seems to be the evolution of this part of F class. The US has opened up a niche technology race making it costlier to play.
They are also helping shooters run some real risks in their load developments. 210gr VLD's at 2700fps is not my idea of a SAAMI spec load.
Then there is the issue of recoil which reduces participation (shooting 300WM recoil all day is not my idea of fun) and you have a downward spiral that was definitely not part of Mr. F's vision.
Essentially, F (TR) becomes F Open for 308 shooters. A very bad idea and kills off the 223 shooters in a heartbeat.
Jerry
They have little interest in the roots of F (F) and have forged ahead with any bullet and bipod required (F-TR). If the majority of countries adopt this format, then we will have to join or support two small groups in Canada.
Or we could just say lump it. When you shoot in Canada, you shoot by our rules/original intent of this class of shooting. We only have F(F) and let travelling shooters deal with the issues of F(TR).
I really don't like it but that seems to be the evolution of this part of F class. The US has opened up a niche technology race making it costlier to play.
They are also helping shooters run some real risks in their load developments. 210gr VLD's at 2700fps is not my idea of a SAAMI spec load.
Then there is the issue of recoil which reduces participation (shooting 300WM recoil all day is not my idea of fun) and you have a downward spiral that was definitely not part of Mr. F's vision.
Essentially, F (TR) becomes F Open for 308 shooters. A very bad idea and kills off the 223 shooters in a heartbeat.
Jerry
