You coyote hunters see these often???

grinrgrn said:
Based on pics and stories from a pred hunting site I frequent,it seems that black yotes are "relatively' common in the south-east USA,or at least more common than elsewhere?That said,I stopped and looked at a large black roadkilled yote in NB this summer.Had to stop,it was so big I was thinking maybe wolf...but no,just a big yote.

Sjemac,regarding DNA,isn't it true that ALL canines are descended from wolves and share DNA?
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Yes. All canines of the Canis genus descended from ancestral wolves but their DNA has differentiated due to natural selection.

What they look at in the case of wolves and coyotes is DNA mixtures that occur in one area like the east where coyotes are relatively recent immigrants and whether those mixtures occur in areas where they coexisted for thousands of years. In this case, coyotes and wolves in the east show a higher incidence of these mixtures than do coyotes and wolves in the historical range of the coyote.
 
sms0000 said:
sjemac, your right I figured mine was 40lbs ish......no question it was a yote. Stopped in to see a buddy's deer hunting gang, he shot a black one last night probably 2 miles from where I shot mine. He said it had some white on it's belly though, not totally black like mine.
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I've got a red pelt, have seen nearly pure white and my buddy, a taxidermist, mounted one that had the same coloration as a husky pup.
 
The Natural Resources DNA Profiling and Forensic Centre, from
Trent University, Peterborough are mapping the Eastern Wolves.

You can find a very good report, wich explains the relationship betweeen the Grey Wolf, the Eastern Wolf (Sub species Red Wolf in the State) and the Eastern Coyotes.
http://web.nrdpfc.ca/wildlifewolf.html and http://web.nrdpfc.ca/wildlifewolfcanidY.html

Also on this site (but I can't find it for now) there is a very interesting report from 2001, called "Status of the eastern wolf (Canis lycaon)".
By Bradley White, Paul Wilson, Aria Johnson, Sonya Grewal and Karmi Shami.
March 2001

There are, in fact grey Wolves/Eastern Wolves and Eastern Wolves/Coyotes hybridation evidences. Some recent studies about the Coyotes from Newfoundland seems to show there is more domestic dog DNA in tyhe Eastern Coyote than they first thought.
 
Just a big orgy of swapping going on out there in the Eastern Canid population.

Makes be glad that I converted to "westernism" after my move from the motherland. Here a coyote knows the diff between a wolf and its kin and the wolves eat the coyotes. Those coyotes that moved east have picked up those eastern foibles like intermixin' and stuff. Can't have that.
 
Took some pics of "wolf" tracks Labor Day wknd canoe/fishing trip on headwaters of Mirimachi because "wolves" don't officially exist here....but I say they do???Size 12 sandal prints for comparison.Helluva BIG coyote with a 28-30" stride?:confused:

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grinrgrn said:
Took some pics of "wolf" tracks Labor Day wknd canoe trip on headwaters of Mirimachi where "wolves" don't officially exist???Size 12 sandal prints for comparison.Helluva BIG coyote with 26-28" stride?:confused:

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Hard to tell from the pics but they do come into the size range of wolf prints. 26" to 28"stride does occur from a loping run in eastern coyotes though (many a cold winter morning figuring that crap out).

You know it's a wolf out here when you can practically fit your hand in the print.
 
grinrgrn said:
This was no loping run,but a huge canine on a casual gait accross 30 yards of beach,and waaaaaay too big for any yote.
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Lope and casual gait may just be a matter of semantics since I equate one to the other. Both are casual, one is just longer to eat up distance.

Could be a wolf then (being there and seeing the tracks in person I would be 95% certain either way).

Since our culture has moved beyond the "see it, kill it" stage, I would and do expect that more big predators will begin to colonize areas hey haven't been seen in in centuries.
 
The yote we shot was weighed at 65lbs, we carry a scale so there is no guessing. The one I had made into a live mount was 72lbs weighed by the taxidermist. I read a report of tests done on yotes by Un. of Guelph and they called those big yotes, coy dogs. They claimed they were dog breeding with a coyote and that is why they are so big? Some people say this is not true and they are only a cross between the eastern wolf/red and a yote? I have seen some yote tracks that were as big as a dog track with long toe nails and they looked like dogs tracks in the snow. We knew it was a yote because the dogs took the tracks. While on patrol in March near a farm I say two coyotes and a large black farm dog and the yote would let the dog come within a few feet. This went on for nearly an hour until they went out of sight. There was no signs of aggression and the black dog had his nose to the yotes rear end, and they weren't three dogs? Mating season or were the yotes going to eat the dog? Yote eat dogs, wolf eat yotes. If a yote breeds with an eastern wolf can it breed with a dog?
 
tracker said:
The yote we shot was weighed at 65lbs, we carry a scale so there is no guessing. The one I had made into a live mount was 72lbs weighed by the taxidermist. I read a report of tests done on yotes by Un. of Guelph and they called those big yotes, coy dogs. They claimed they were dog breeding with a coyote and that is why they are so big? Some people say this is not true and they are only a cross between the eastern wolf/red and a yote? I have seen some yote tracks that were as big as a dog track with long toe nails and they looked like dogs tracks in the snow. We knew it was a yote because the dogs took the tracks. While on patrol in March near a farm I say two coyotes and a large black farm dog and the yote would let the dog come within a few feet. This went on for nearly an hour until they went out of sight. There was no signs of aggression and the black dog had his nose to the yotes rear end, and they weren't three dogs? Mating season or were the yotes going to eat the dog? Yote eat dogs, wolf eat yotes. If a yote breeds with an eastern wolf can it breed with a dog?
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Yes it can. The reason it doesn't happen more is that dogs and coyotes are more inclined to kill each than screw each other.

Coydogs do exist but aren't as commons as people generally believe.
 
Thats the trouble with some anti hunters that want to control deer population by feeding them birth control pills? They thing we hunters want to screw them and not kill them?
 
sjemac said:
Wolves

There are opinions by some of these researchers that the red wolf itself originated from early grey wolf coyote hybridization.
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I found this interesting and certainly supports most of what I've read that the red and eastern wolves developed independant of the grey wolf and that while interbreeding between eastern wolves and coyotes is not uncommon, crosses between grey wolves and coyotes are extremely rare. This helps explain the wide colour variances in the east and some of the very large sizes reported. It seems where coyotes and grey wolves share the same area that coyotes are smaller and come in less colour varieties. This is likely explained by the fact that the larger grey wolf is more likely to eat a coyote than screw it..........

"Long-term analysis of mtDNA confirmed independence of the original Red Wolf from the Coyote or Gray Wolf populations in the eastern part of North America and isolated two distinct populations: one is known as the Red Wolf and the other as the Eastern Wolf. The sequence of haplotypes show elements similar to the Eastern Wolf and it is probably of the sister taxon to the Red Wolf. The mtDNA analysis confirm that the Red Wolf's ancestors belonged to an ancient form of primitive wolf (along with the Eastern Wolf) and certain fossils from North America 750 000 years ago in the eastern part of North America and later divided into two or three species [Red Wolf + Eastern Wolf and Coyote (distinct from about 300 thousand years ago)] (Nowak,1979, 1992). Wilson et al. (2000) concluded that the Eastern Wolf and Red Wolf should be considered as sister taxa and recognized as distinct species from other North American canids. However, the canonical listing of mammal species lists them both as subspecies of the Gray Wolf."
 
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And yet a strong case is being made for simply listing ALL of the above under the Canis lupus heading and simply tacking on the latrans (coyote), lycaon(red wolf), and familiaris (domestic dog) as subspecies designation. In effect, listing all as wolves.

Coyote would go from Canis latrans to Canis lupus latrans, red wolf from Canis lycaon to Canis lupus lycaon and gray wolf to Canis lupus lupus.
 
Watching reminds me all the people I work with who will say "I was out west on the weekend and saw this animal but I couldn't tell if it was a wolf or a coyote."

I'll tell them it was a coyote.

"Well how do you know?"

"Because if it was a wolf, you would have been wondering whether it was a deer or a bear or a wolf. The size of them leaves no doubt when you see it."
 
my 8 month old choc lab's paw prints are twice the size of an average coyotes print. We were up north and found some wolf tracks and my dogs paw print can fit inside that wolf one no problem. Big difference and wolf tracks you can see the nails in the track a lot more too.

theres a national geographic documentory called " Valley of the Wolves" its about wolves and coyotes in Yellowstone national park. It shows footage of wolves killing coyotes in about 5 seconds flat. The size difference is amazing. They say the Eastern coyote does have wolf genics in them that makes them larger and smarter, but breeding with wolves or dogs is very rare, but does happen from time to time.
 
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