Canadian Manufactured 7.62 x 51 Semi Auto
- Thread starter severus
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Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Waaay out west.
Nice try but......FAIL
Taken from Wikipedia...
"The credited designers were Major R. V. Shepherd, OBE, Inspector of Armaments in the Ministry of Supply Design Department at The Royal Arsenal, Woolwich, (later Assistant Chief Superintendent at the Armaments Design Department) and Mr. Harold John Turpin, Senior Draughtsman of the Design Department of the Royal Small Arms Factory (RSAF) Enfield. Shepherd had been recalled to service after having retired and spending some time at BSA."
The Sten was not designed by guys who didn't know their way around a firearm.
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Lets see some design sketches of different ideas. The operating system is something for the engineers to figure out. There are already an number of proven systems that could be adapted to whatever. Pick your layout and start presenting some idea pictures. At the end of the day looks are a major part of the purchase.
Agreed - I've referenced two books to Severus:
- "Brassey's Essential guide to Military Small Arms"
- "Ballistics Theory and Design of Guns and Ammunition", Donald E. Carlucci and Sidney S. Jacobson, CRC Press, ISBN 1-4200-6618-8
I don't think he has an obligation to do so. This thread is (was?
) about an inquiry for input for features / options, demand / price point.Now it seems like there is a need for him to prove what he knows or is cabable of.
Why?
I also don't think he has any inclination that a product will be on the shelf next summer.
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Oh he's obligated
You don't post about building and marketing the Holy Grail of black rifles on CGN without taking on some obligation.
If he's serious he'll answer the questions and comments. It will only help his project in the long run to hash out the issues.
I've gotta ask why don't you start with a tactical/precision bolt gun? Much bigger market, easier to build right and a really good way to get your name out. Semi Autos are a hard thing to get right even when you do your best, if you fail there then you kill the potential for future projects.
Don't take this wrong, I think you should get into the market and I would buy your product once proven. But in 3 years we could have a different government and you may have invested years of R&D into a product you can't sell either here or in the US. Good things take time. RobArms had a lot of issues before they hit on a product that sells ok in the largest market in the world.
Don't take this wrong, I think you should get into the market and I would buy your product once proven. But in 3 years we could have a different government and you may have invested years of R&D into a product you can't sell either here or in the US. Good things take time. RobArms had a lot of issues before they hit on a product that sells ok in the largest market in the world.
suprathepeg -- those guns are not restricted from import.
The biggest bonus for a Canadian manufacturer is to be abe to provide a product that is not otherwise produced or available.
Its ahrd to break into a saturated market - the hunting rifle market is that -- and quite frankly Canada has a high end rifle manufacture already with PGWDTI.
A semi auto that has a para-military look is a product that Canadians want, and given the current import/export climates, it is becoming a potential market. Especially on those what won't buy guns from Communist China.
The biggest bonus for a Canadian manufacturer is to be abe to provide a product that is not otherwise produced or available.
Its ahrd to break into a saturated market - the hunting rifle market is that -- and quite frankly Canada has a high end rifle manufacture already with PGWDTI.
A semi auto that has a para-military look is a product that Canadians want, and given the current import/export climates, it is becoming a potential market. Especially on those what won't buy guns from Communist China.
I understand that Kevin but I'm just saying even if they were the only game in town (which they aren't) we are a small market with limited growth potential.
What I'm really trying to say is:
Firearms are not the easiest to sit down and build.
He is talking about a new design, Frankengunning pieces from different guns to keep costs down.
Greentips, MikeH and others have pointed out the pitfalls.
I think we all wish him/them luck, however we are trying to be realistic.
What I'm really trying to say is:
Firearms are not the easiest to sit down and build.
He is talking about a new design, Frankengunning pieces from different guns to keep costs down.
Greentips, MikeH and others have pointed out the pitfalls.
I think we all wish him/them luck, however we are trying to be realistic.
NavyShooter
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IMHO, the easiest option might be to arrange rights from an american manufacturer to build licensed copies here of an already proven design (Masada, AR-180B, etc)
Failing that, polling the black gun owner community for their favorite features is not a bad idea, but that doesn't mean they have to use all of them.
Use the ones that make economic sense for your production.
NS
Failing that, polling the black gun owner community for their favorite features is not a bad idea, but that doesn't mean they have to use all of them.
Use the ones that make economic sense for your production.
NS
JD Spanner
Regular
- Location
- Hamilton Ontario
If China can make a semi M14 receiver and be approved by the RCMP as Non/ Restricted can't a Canadian company make a receiver that is made in a way to get past as non/restricted for say the FN FAL there must be tons of parts for these things kicking around.I've got one of them big C/A paperwieghts.
Spanner
Spanner
Maybe you missed it where I pointed out that to do so would require US DOS approval, and the same situation Colt Canada is in with their sales.
You will NOT get a lic. to produce for a restricted from export firearm. If the company shares the TDP with you, they can be indicted.
You dont think some enterprising folks already tried to go this route...
Here is something I need answered does US companys design rights extend out side of the US if that product is prohibited from export.With the advancements in AutoCad and rapid prototyping one could in essence go from design concept to actual testing mod in matter of months .Maybe you missed it where I pointed out that to do so would require US DOS approval, and the same situation Colt Canada is in with their sales.
You will NOT get a lic. to produce for a restricted from export firearm. If the company shares the TDP with you, they can be indicted.
You dont think some enterprising folks already tried to go this route...
You don't have to buy from the US, but I doubt FN or HK will sell you a license for building just or 2000 rifles.
You can always contract the design to someone else - that is, hire LMT or magpul as consultant to do the design for you. I imagine it will need DOS approval as well but now they are just providing consulting service.......
You can always contract the design to someone else - that is, hire LMT or magpul as consultant to do the design for you. I imagine it will need DOS approval as well but now they are just providing consulting service.......
Maybe you missed it where I pointed out that to do so would require US DOS approval, and the same situation Colt Canada is in with their sales.
You will NOT get a lic. to produce for a restricted from export firearm. If the company shares the TDP with you, they can be indicted.
You dont think some enterprising folks already tried to go this route...
Savage - Yes, to some degree.
The big issue is how you reverse engineered one, if it is was not allowed for export out of the US for Civ end users.
If it was exported out for LE / MIL then reverse engineered, you basically falsified the DSP-83 and can be charged under US law, as it was a use only export permit that was approved. This can apply to the civ permit as well, but would be tougher to convict to as a civ end user basically does not control who uses the gun. Machinists, CAD guys are all Civ....etc.
The big issue is how you reverse engineered one, if it is was not allowed for export out of the US for Civ end users.
If it was exported out for LE / MIL then reverse engineered, you basically falsified the DSP-83 and can be charged under US law, as it was a use only export permit that was approved. This can apply to the civ permit as well, but would be tougher to convict to as a civ end user basically does not control who uses the gun. Machinists, CAD guys are all Civ....etc.
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- XMU Local .303
Kevin,
I missed that part.
NS
I missed that part.
NS
- Location
- East ontario
I think you best idea to to make it a joint manufacture consept.
Have 5 or 6 of use gun parts makers, with the skills to come up with this gun and have each company have a stake in making it happen.
I for one would be in, my partner has a P Eng. and would be intrested in doing work on a project like this.
bbb
Have 5 or 6 of use gun parts makers, with the skills to come up with this gun and have each company have a stake in making it happen.
I for one would be in, my partner has a P Eng. and would be intrested in doing work on a project like this.
bbb
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