Norinco M-14 worth it?

cote_b

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Hi,

Im sure there is threads on this already, but what I need to know is if the M-14 is worth the money. I am only 18, so buying one would a pretty significant purchase and I would have little money to mod/improve it after buying it (Since I'll be in University next fall)A local gun shop has one for 500$ +tax, but I bet I could get it for 500 taxes in. I believe Marstar has them for 399, but after tax and shipping it wont be much less than the local one. Also, is feeding this rifle going to be expensive? I am not set up for reloading yet and can't seem to find much .308 sulplus anymore, so I would be almost exclusively shooting 18$ per box powerpoint.
Or, am I better of looking for a CZ-858? They are about 200 more than an M-14, but I have an entire crate of cheap suplus for it. Maybe even better off waiting for an SKS, which are only 200$ or less?

What would you recommend ?
 
depends on what you want to do with it- remember, the 7.62x51 cartridge isn't in the same league as the 7.62x39- you're talking 308 winchester, and unless you set up for reloading, it's going to be expensive to feed- all that said, it IS a superior rifle in terms of workmanship, and you can do more to it- a lot of the guys use it for hunting, and target practice- good luck doing that with your 7.62x39 whatever- the 7.62x39 is the russian equivilent of roughly a 30/30 , and a lot less accurate- if you want to plink, get the sks /858- if you're serious , get the 14- remember, if you want to scope any of these, it's going to be expensive as well. and may not be worth it on the sks/858
also even though they're both 7.62, the BORE DIAMETERS are NOT THE SAME
THE 7.62x39 uses a .311 bullet and the 7.62x51 uses a 308 bullet

if you want to bring home meat, ( ie hunting) then it's the m14
if you want to punch tiny holes in paper at yardage, it's the m14
if you want to build your muscles, it's the m14( they weigh a
t least 11 pounds, even stripped down)
however, if you want a jack around gun, your sks/858 will suit you-
 
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Yes an M14 is worth the money, but so is a CZ858. Get the one that appeals to you most and fits in with what you want to do. For hunting the M14 shoots a superior cartridge. But, as you've mentioned, it is more expensive to feed. I think if all you want to do is shoot a lot at targets, I'd get either an 858 or an SKS. You can have a lot of fun with a 22 as well and there are some cool looking Ruger 10/22 upgrades available.
 
depends on what you want to do with it- remember, the 7.62x51 cartridge isn't in the same league as the 7.62x39- you're talking 308 winchester, and unless you set up for reloading, it's going to be expensive to feed- all that said, it IS a superior rifle in terms of workmanship, and you can do more to it- a lot of the guys use it for hunting, and target practice- good luck doing that with your 7.62x39 whatever- the 7.62x39 is the russian equivilent of roughly a 30/30 , and a lot less accurate- if you want to plink, get the sks /858- if you're serious , get the 14- remember, if you want to scope any of these, it's going to be expensive as well. and may not be worth it on the sks/858
also even though they're both 7.62, the BORE DIAMETERS are NOT THE SAME
THE 7.62x39 uses a .311 bullet and the 7.62x51 uses a 308 bullet

if you want to bring home meat, ( ie hunting) then it's the m14
if you want to punch tiny holes in paper at yardage, it's the m14
if you want to build your muscles, it's the m14( they weigh a
t least 11 pounds, even stripped down)
however, if you want a jack around gun, your sks/858 will suit you-

X2
There a great gun. But beware the addiction.
 
Hmmm.....interesting dilemma, which reminds me of when I was your age and starting to hunt.

I have both of these rifles and can say a few things about both. For hunting, the M-14 would be a bit more versatile, since you could shoot at longer ranges and use it on game that one might not want to hunt with a 30/30 equivalent cartridge. If you have to wait to purchase a solid scope and mount, the peep sights are generally user friendly. I would recommend sticking to 150 grain bullets rather than the 180 grains that you usually see in most department/sporting goods stores, since the latter are very hard on the op-rod of the rifle.

On the other hand, if most of your hunting is for deer or smaller game at generally short ranges (usually 100m, though I can consistently hit a 200m gong with my CZ) or you tend to push through the bush/drive your deer, a CZ is a lot lighter and fast handling. I have yet to install my folding stock and muzzle break (to make her even handier, while the barrel barely even rises with the brake), and would seriously consider using it for those applications where a light carbine is preferable.

For target shooting, the M-14 can be used for Service Rifle matches, as well as built up into a long distance rig with the proper mods and equipment. It should however be pretty good right out of the box, and a fine candidate for honing your marksmanship. Once again however, I've found that my CZ 858, and that of at least one other friend tends to be considerably more accurate than most SKS's and certainly AK varients (the latter based upon what I've heard from US shooters). While not a rig for precision target shooting, you can still at a reasonable price get a fair bit of target practice in by using relatively cheaper surplus ammo. I think that on account of the availability of cheaper ammo and the reputation of these guns that many people shoot them for fun without taking as much care as they would with more expensive ammo in what's considered a more accurate rifle.

As for the cost of shooting your rig, 7.62x39 is currently available at far less than any surplus 7.62x51 that can even be found, though I've personally taken up reloading in the past year and a half/two years and discovered that it can be done effectively with a minimal outlay of funds (i.e. Lee Reloading kit with manual, dies and components). It's a lot easier to find both reloadable brass for 7.62 NATO/.308 Winchester not to mention .308bullets, and it's a lot easier to find hunting ammo in the stores when you need to buy it in a pinch. And while I would not discourage someone from shooting corrosive ammo or buying a rifle for which most of the available ammo is corrosive, I don't like the idea of learning that I've missed a spot during my cleaning by finding light rust on the gas assembly, which did happen on one occassion with my CZ.

Over the long term, the M-14 would be amenable to more accuracy improving upgrades, versus the predominantly "tacticool" mods for the CZ 858. In the meantime it would be just fine in it's stock form, though a replacement USGI stock would add to its durability and appearance.

From the standpoint of which rifle will keep you more occupied with it, I think that the M14 has a lot more in the way of books, manuals, internet discussion boards, opportunities for reloading, eventually adding extra accessories etc that might make it a more interesting rifle in that regard, whereas my CZ is essentially a shooting gun and little more (though it does that awfully well).

As a first time firearms buyer, I would also have to add a few caveats about the M14 that may or may not play into your decision. If you have the chance to examine your rifle beforehand, you should check to see if the barrel is indexed properly, as many Norincos have the front sight slanted ever so slightly to the left or right. While the rear sight can be adjusted to compensate so that the rifle will group to point of aim at a given range, the point of impact might be a bit off at other distances. If you want to keep using the irons, you'll probably want to have the barrel timing fixed, which can be done relatively quickly by a skilled person like Hungry, but is not so easy for most of us. If you mount a scope however, the issue should be a moot one, since the alignment of the sites won't come into play.

You might also want to examine the rear sites on your Norinco, since they work fine on some, while on others they tend to be rather sloppy or don't adjust very well. The usual solution, to buy a USGI M14 or M1 Garand rear site assembly would probably put you out another $60 or so, depending upon availablity. While these issues hardly disqualify the Norinco M-14 as a good buy, they can factor in for those of us who like to buy a rifle that we can shoot as is from the box. On the other hand, the ability to play around with different things on the M14 rifles is also part of their appeal to many people, since it keeps them busy reading up about them or tinkering away on cold winter nights.

If they still have a few left, you can get the M14 to your door from Marstar for about $480, shipping and taxes. If you want to reload for it, you could probably buy something like a Lee Anniversary kit or Lee Hand Press and a scale, dies, one or two pounds of powder (at about 150 rounds a pound), a thousand primers, some brass and one to three hundred bullets for another $225-250. If you can find a source of cheap brass, you'll essentially be paying $30per pound of powder, $30 per 1000 primers and approximately $20 for 100 soft point bullets, perhaps less for bulk jacketed. With luck you might be able to add one or two 20/5 round mags and/or a USGI synthetic stock and still be around the total cost for a CZ 858 shipped to your door (about $750). Favouring the CZ however is the fact that for about $200-$250 more you will be able to purchase an extra 1000 rounds of milsurp ammo, and just shoot away.

While it's not clear for how much longer the CZs will be available, the consensus is that the availability of new M14s from China is coming to an end, as they are no longer in production and the Chinese seem to have exhausted the remaining rifles and parts that were left over there following the US import ban on those rifles. I suspect that given a bit of time, these rifles will certainly be worth more than their current $400-500 price tag. So it might not be that bad an investment to purchase one now before they cost as much as the CZ if not more.

Best of luck with whichever rifle you choose!

Regards,

Frank
 
You can always try to bargain with marstar, order some other stuff at the same time to get a deal out of it. If i were you, i'd get an that nork before they become anymore rare, there wont be any new ones coming.

Ps. IMO, there is only one big mod needed for the Norinco M14, and its a better stock finish.
 
If you do a search on my name, you will find an exact thread asking this exact question.

I now own an m14 that I will NEVER sell :D

But, coming from a new Norc owner, bank about $20-100 for various 'tweaks' after you buy your rifle. My flash hider came loose and I had trouble with my flash hider set screw. I had to order a new set screw from brownelles and a new tap that matched its threads.

Ran the tap through the hole and installed the new set screw and voila! no more problems .. final cost was about $25 for me.

good luck .. its well worth it.
 
Hmmm.....interesting dilemma, which reminds me of when I was your age and starting to hunt.

I have both of these rifles and can say a few things about both. For hunting, the M-14 would be a bit more versatile, since you could shoot at longer ranges and use it on game that one might not want to hunt with a 30/30 equivalent cartridge. If you have to wait to purchase a solid scope and mount, the peep sights are generally user friendly. I would recommend sticking to 150 grain bullets rather than the 180 grains that you usually see in most department/sporting goods stores, since the latter are very hard on the op-rod of the rifle.

On the other hand, if most of your hunting is for deer or smaller game at generally short ranges (usually 100m, though I can consistently hit a 200m gong with my CZ) or you tend to push through the bush/drive your deer, a CZ is a lot lighter and fast handling. I have yet to install my folding stock and muzzle break (to make her even handier, while the barrel barely even rises with the brake), and would seriously consider using it for those applications where a light carbine is preferable.

For target shooting, the M-14 can be used for Service Rifle matches, as well as built up into a long distance rig with the proper mods and equipment. It should however be pretty good right out of the box, and a fine candidate for honing your marksmanship. Once again however, I've found that my CZ 858, and that of at least one other friend tends to be considerably more accurate than most SKS's and certainly AK varients (the latter based upon what I've heard from US shooters). While not a rig for precision target shooting, you can still at a reasonable price get a fair bit of target practice in by using relatively cheaper surplus ammo. I think that on account of the availability of cheaper ammo and the reputation of these guns that many people shoot them for fun without taking as much care as they would with more expensive ammo in what's considered a more accurate rifle.

As for the cost of shooting your rig, 7.62x39 is currently available at far less than any surplus 7.62x51 that can even be found, though I've personally taken up reloading in the past year and a half/two years and discovered that it can be done effectively with a minimal outlay of funds (i.e. Lee Reloading kit with manual, dies and components). It's a lot easier to find both reloadable brass for 7.62 NATO/.308 Winchester not to mention .308bullets, and it's a lot easier to find hunting ammo in the stores when you need to buy it in a pinch. And while I would not discourage someone from shooting corrosive ammo or buying a rifle for which most of the available ammo is corrosive, I don't like the idea of learning that I've missed a spot during my cleaning by finding light rust on the gas assembly, which did happen on one occassion with my CZ.

Over the long term, the M-14 would be amenable to more accuracy improving upgrades, versus the predominantly "tacticool" mods for the CZ 858. In the meantime it would be just fine in it's stock form, though a replacement USGI stock would add to its durability and appearance.

From the standpoint of which rifle will keep you more occupied with it, I think that the M14 has a lot more in the way of books, manuals, internet discussion boards, opportunities for reloading, eventually adding extra accessories etc that might make it a more interesting rifle in that regard, whereas my CZ is essentially a shooting gun and little more (though it does that awfully well).

As a first time firearms buyer, I would also have to add a few caveats about the M14 that may or may not play into your decision. If you have the chance to examine your rifle beforehand, you should check to see if the barrel is indexed properly, as many Norincos have the front sight slanted ever so slightly to the left or right. While the rear sight can be adjusted to compensate so that the rifle will group to point of aim at a given range, the point of impact might be a bit off at other distances. If you want to keep using the irons, you'll probably want to have the barrel timing fixed, which can be done relatively quickly by a skilled person like Hungry, but is not so easy for most of us. If you mount a scope however, the issue should be a moot one, since the alignment of the sites won't come into play.

You might also want to examine the rear sites on your Norinco, since they work fine on some, while on others they tend to be rather sloppy or don't adjust very well. The usual solution, to buy a USGI M14 or M1 Garand rear site assembly would probably put you out another $60 or so, depending upon availablity. While these issues hardly disqualify the Norinco M-14 as a good buy, they can factor in for those of us who like to buy a rifle that we can shoot as is from the box. On the other hand, the ability to play around with different things on the M14 rifles is also part of their appeal to many people, since it keeps them busy reading up about them or tinkering away on cold winter nights.

If they still have a few left, you can get the M14 to your door from Marstar for about $480, shipping and taxes. If you want to reload for it, you could probably buy something like a Lee Anniversary kit or Lee Hand Press and a scale, dies, one or two pounds of powder (at about 150 rounds a pound), a thousand primers, some brass and one to three hundred bullets for another $225-250. If you can find a source of cheap brass, you'll essentially be paying $30per pound of powder, $30 per 1000 primers and approximately $20 for 100 soft point bullets, perhaps less for bulk jacketed. With luck you might be able to add one or two 20/5 round mags and/or a USGI synthetic stock and still be around the total cost for a CZ 858 shipped to your door (about $750). Favouring the CZ however is the fact that for about $200-$250 more you will be able to purchase an extra 1000 rounds of milsurp ammo, and just shoot away.

While it's not clear for how much longer the CZs will be available, the consensus is that the availability of new M14s from China is coming to an end, as they are no longer in production and the Chinese seem to have exhausted the remaining rifles and parts that were left over there following the US import ban on those rifles. I suspect that given a bit of time, these rifles will certainly be worth more than their current $400-500 price tag. So it might not be that bad an investment to purchase one now before they cost as much as the CZ if not more.

Best of luck with whichever rifle you choose!

Regards,

Frank

Well put Frank! ;)
I had an interest in hunting and target shooting when I was your age, but I did not pursue it then. Now, 30 years later I've finally done something about it, and boy do I regret letting that time slip by. :eek:
Buy the Norc M 14 first (they're probably not going to make any more, then the prices will go up). It is a good rifle out of the box and it is the best buy around for an excellent platform in an excellent caliber; plus they are non-restricted and who knows what crazy new gun-ban legislation the Liberals will come up with if they ever return to power. Yes the M14 can be expensive to feed.(see above for good re-loading advice) It will grow with/on you too as there are tons of mods for the M 14. You'll probably never sell it but if you do you'll probably make a bit of $'s if you keep it in good shape. Read all the stickies in "Main Battle Rifle" forums, then go to one of Hungry's M 14 clinics (download the clinics in "MBR" too) when you can - essential knowledge and practical applications for every M 14 owner, at a very reasonable price.
Then I'd suggest a SKS- a good cheap (cheap to feed too) reliable gun that while not "tack driver' accurate is still a lot of fun. Again, if you do sell it you'll probably not lose money on it. Keep an eye on Marstar's web site, where they're listed for $139., currently out of stock but supposedly some are coming by the end of the year (but that can change).
Good luck! :wave:
 
Hi,
I would have little money to mod/improve it after buying it (Since I'll be in University next fall)
What would you recommend ?

Since you're going to be in University next fall I recommend you don't buy any guns and save what money you have for beer.
 
one other point- the 305/m14/ whatever doesn't"look" like a ( and i'm using the general public conception here) "assault rifle"- to most folks and the idiots that wrote c-68 -it's a GARAND- esp with the 5 round mag that sits flush- based on what the idiots think, both the sks ( by virtue of it's fixed external mag) and the 858 (by virtue of the big detachable mag and the pistol grip) look like "assault rifles"- oh sure, you're going to say b/s but that's exactly the criteria that moved a lot of the unrestricted rifles to resticted/prohibited the last time out
most of the general population see cz58 /858 and think ak47
 
Um
why do you have a crate of ammo for something you don't own ?
1. I bought it since I was expecting a Russian SKS from SIR
2. I bought it because my friend has a Cz-858 and I like shooting it when we go to the range, so I dont want to be a #### and use all his ammo.
3. I bought so I would have some when ever I got a gun in that caliber
4. I bought it because it wont always be this cheap and available
5. I bought it because I felt like it and it isn't a crime to own ammo for a gun you don't currently own

Since you're going to be in University next fall I recommend you don't buy any guns and save what money you have for beer.

Too late for that. I already own 7 long guns. :D Besides, I am not really into drinking and much rather spend that money on guns or tuition and books.

I think I will probably go for an M-14. I can't afford a CZ yet,and I can just shoot my friends CZ when we go to the range. I also will just wait to get my Russian SKS from SIR whenever it comes in.
 
Um
why do you have a crate of ammo for something you don't own ?

Noob, it's a good excuse to to tell your significant other.

"But, but, I already have X rounds in Y caliber. It would be silly to let them go to waste. I have to buy that gun now."
 
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