Shooting standing up..... argh

Valashnikov

Valashnikov

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I can shoot sitting down at the bench at the range and be fairly accurate, but as soon as I stand up I am all over the place. I feel kind of dumb but I need some advice. I can shoot my shotty standing no problem but not my rifles. Help!
 
I am also a pretty poor offhand shooter, thats what I bought a 22 mag for to practice, practice, practice. I personally never shoot at game offhand, I always find a tree, bipod, shooting sticks, or whatever is near to get some kind of rest. When I do practice offhand I do find it beneficial to hold just off the point of aim slightly and then when I start my trigger pull to move the crosshairs onto point of aim as the trigger breaks. Don't know if that is a good or bad habit but works for me. I also find that having the magnification turned up too much seems to make things more shaky, maybe trying to compensate for too much movement?
 
The way I like to do it is to keep my left elbow in as close to my body as possible.

Facing 45 degrees off of your target with you off side foot towards the target, this gives you a nice stable rest, but you have to control your breathing because your elbow is not on a nice stable bench, but on your belly more or less.

Also, RELAX.......

It will take more time to shoot the type of group you want in this position.

Its possible, but it takes more time to go through all the steps of a well placed shot.

Also, your firearm may be a consideration.

I had a rifle with a 28" heavy bull barrel that shot great off its bipod, but I never could hit a gopher much past 100 with it because the weight was just to much to steady.

Of course, maybe I could have just hit the gym a bit more, but they say that you shouldnt be using your muscles to support the rifle, but your bones instead.

I could only muscle that beast onto target for a short time too.

Good luck!
 
Well, I haven`t been in a combat situation yet (lol) so just target so far, But you never know. I would like to eventually join the IDPA. I guess I will just have to go shoot more. Darn, what a hardship. lol. Good thing I have my 10/22. Maybe I should start working out more...lol.
 
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I'm fairly good with my 30.30 lever, ok with my cz 858, and horrible with my M14S offhand shooting. No idea why there's much of a difference between my lever and 858 they're about the same size/weight and both have irons, M14S i'd think the extra weight/length would play a role, plus its a newer rifle of mine and I have the least amount of rounds down that barrel
 
First off, get a sling if you don't already have one. If you can "sling up" around your weak hand (left if you shoot right handed) arm, it adds that much more stability. It is surprising how much it helps with a bit of practice.

One thing I have always found helps for all of my shooting is to try and do it fast, meaning with out time to "think" too much.

Put up a few targets at a short range to start. Stand relaxed with your rifle, then when you decide its time to shoot, shoulder and get your sight picture as quick as you can and shoot.
If you are using a hunting rifle paper plates work well, and if you are using a .22 popcans are great.

This may not help you shoot tight groups on paper from standing, but has definitely helped me be a better "field" shooter for hunting and what not. Also get you more familiar with your rifle, and that is never a bad thing either...
 
I don't know if it counts as decent enough or not but I train for hunting by hitting 2L pop bottles at just over 200 yards with my 700P.

The big things for me:
a) Slings are your friends - I always liked doing the quick wrap around the arm but what I fell in love with is the Tactical Intervention Quick Cuff Sling. A compromise between the stability of a cuff and the quickness of an arm wrap.

b) Practice getting the gun up and on target smooth and paced. If the shot isn't there early because you're fighting with the gun, its definately not going to get better as you fatigue.

c) Follow through - picking my head up to see where the ball is going screws up my golf game. Same thing happens shooting. Don't worry where the bullet is going immediately after the shot. Just stay concentrated on staying on target through the full pull of the trigger. If you're trying to see results as they happen, odds are you'll move the gun.

d) Personal preference - find what works for you. I personally like laying my palm flat along my floor plate with the sling tucking the gun into my body. One breath to relax and aquire, hold, squeeze.
 
No matter how stable your off-hand posture is, your sights will never stop moving. The trick is to know when to pull the trigger. Take up the trigger slack with the sight picture in focus. When the sights pass through the centre of the target squeeze the trigger till it breaks. Practice practice practice.
 
I notice you have a Cooey from another thread.

This is where I learned how to shoot while standing. Start off with something small, like .22LR. It'll help you develop great shooting qualities (and avoid negatives like the flinch or a heavy rifle swaying).

Make sure to BREATHE. Know your rifle and where it'll hit. If your bore is good, Cooeys are more accurate than many new bolt guns coming out today! I have a model 60 that I won an iron sights competition with this summer and took 2nd in the same competition during the previous summer. It's old too, there's no serial, so CFC sent me some pos sticker that fell off in seconds, so the number is engraved on the inside of the butt plate.

Anywho, also make sure your rifle likes the particular ammo you're using. Test this by resting it on a sandbag. Mine loves CCI Stingers like something fierce.

Again, most shooters' problems are in their breathing technique.

As for a sling, I would advise against this, based on my preference. I find them to feel 'unnatural' and 'in the way'. It might work for you, but I removed my sling when shooting on the range.

Before you piss with anything else though, I would strongly suggest you master shooting iron sights on that beautiful Cooey you have.

As for elbow placement, it depends. Some love elbows into the gut, others love them sticking out. Whatever you find that helps you stabilize the muzzle of your rifle, the better it'll be for you.

Oh and another decent little tip. Bring the rifle up to your cheek, don't bring your cheek to the rifle. When sighting in, try to keep your head as far away as you can from the rear notch. I find this is more effective with peep sights, but the further back you are, the more accurate shot, because you reduce line of sight (the notch is smaller and if the blade fits evenly, you have a sharp centered shot).

Not sure what else I can name off the top of my head, without seeing your shooting stance, but PM if you need any further help, if your questions aren't answered here.
 
Sight picture!!!!!

Your mind and your body must work together so that the BREAK occurs when you see the proper sight picture.

To achieve this I :

1) Work on upper body strength and cardio, including hoisting a heavy rifle into position over and over in dry-fire, as I breathe, hold, tension trigger and BREAK. Over and over and over. SEE the shot.

2) Use lots of .22 to practice.

3) Tension your muscles evenly and only as much as needed.

4) Practice with a 'real' gun too.

5) Use anything that works for you....sling, elbow positions, weight on legs, etc....

6) Don't over-correct your sight picture. If you do your wobble will INCREASE. Ease into the shot and relax. I try to come up to the aim and NOT push past the target and have to bring it back again....ie all one smooth motion.

7) By the time I'm ready for the shot in the aim position, the trigger is already pre-tensioned so that finding the trigger doesn't create a 'jerk' in the system. I'm already there. I don't bring it up, aim, hold breath and THEN fiddle around to find the trigger. Again, all one smooth motion (However, I'm NOT on the trigger until gun is on target.)

8) Being able to see the shot BEFORE you bring the gun up, and then bring the gun up into position saves time. It's like a pistol, or ironsights....your eye is on target, the gun (and sights) comes into alignment with your eye, you pause, and squeeze. You only have a few seconds before your muscles tire and you must breathe, so this is the efficient way to do it.

9) Get a good shoulder pocket and cheek weld. Practice holding the gun in the same spot each time. I put the butt in the open shoulder pocket by raising my trigger-hand elbow. It anchors on my collar bone. This stabilizes my pulse and is very repeatable.

10) If you flinch, you need to retrain to let the shot happen and just pull the trigger. Everything else happens on auto-pilot after that. Dry fire and .22 is good for retraining if needed. Repeatability (ie 'shot goes where I want it.') hinges on stability at the time the trigger breaks.

11) Finally, as I'm raising the rifle, I'm breathing in. By the time the rifle is up, my breathe is paused, my body is stabilized, the trigger is pretensioned, I see the sight picture, my arms are in position and my cheek is in contact. All that is left is a slow, steady squeeze. The shot happens when it happens, but if I've done my job right up to that point, the break coincides with my mental sight picture brought from lots of practice. It becomes reflexive.

Sorry for the long winded reply.

I shoot Service Rifle to good effect in Standing Position with the above tips, including running from the 500M line to eventually make it to the 100M line and shoot 3-second target exposures, with an AR15 (which according to the Antis is not used for competitions....)

I train with a heavy rifle in dry-fire to make the AR feel ..... lighter.

For hunting the only thing left is to learn how to make use of supports like trees etc without have the recoil rip the skin off your knuckles on the bark!!

:)
 
Keebler750 said:
Sight picture!!!!!

Your mind and your body must work together so that the BREAK occurs when you see the proper sight picture.

To achieve this I :

1) Work on upper body strength and cardio, including hoisting a heavy rifle into position over and over in dry-fire, as I breathe, hold, tension trigger and BREAK. Over and over and over. SEE the shot.

2) Use lots of .22 to practice.

3) Tension your muscles evenly and only as much as needed.

4) Practice with a 'real' gun too.

5) Use anything that works for you....sling, elbow positions, weight on legs, etc....

6) Don't over-correct your sight picture. If you do your wobble will INCREASE. Ease into the shot and relax. I try to come up to the aim and NOT push past the target and have to bring it back again....ie all one smooth motion.

7) By the time I'm ready for the shot in the aim position, the trigger is already pre-tensioned so that finding the trigger doesn't create a 'jerk' in the system. I'm already there. I don't bring it up, aim, hold breath and THEN fiddle around to find the trigger. Again, all one smooth motion (However, I'm NOT on the trigger until gun is on target.)

8) Being able to see the shot BEFORE you bring the gun up, and then bring the gun up into position saves time. It's like a pistol, or ironsights....your eye is on target, the gun (and sights) comes into alignment with your eye, you pause, and squeeze. You only have a few seconds before your muscles tire and you must breathe, so this is the efficient way to do it.

9) Get a good shoulder pocket and cheek weld. Practice holding the gun in the same spot each time. I put the butt in the open shoulder pocket by raising my trigger-hand elbow. It anchors on my collar bone. This stabilizes my pulse and is very repeatable.

10) If you flinch, you need to retrain to let the shot happen and just pull the trigger. Everything else happens on auto-pilot after that. Dry fire and .22 is good for retraining if needed. Repeatability (ie 'shot goes where I want it.') hinges on stability at the time the trigger breaks.

11) Finally, as I'm raising the rifle, I'm breathing in. By the time the rifle is up, my breathe is paused, my body is stabilized, the trigger is pretensioned, I see the sight picture, my arms are in position and my cheek is in contact. All that is left is a slow, steady squeeze. The shot happens when it happens, but if I've done my job right up to that point, the break coincides with my mental sight picture brought from lots of practice. It becomes reflexive.

Sorry for the long winded reply.

I shoot Service Rifle to good effect in Standing Position with the above tips, including running from the 500M line to eventually make it to the 100M line and shoot 3-second target exposures, with an AR15 (which according to the Antis is not used for competitions....)

I train with a heavy rifle in dry-fire to make the AR feel ..... lighter.

For hunting the only thing left is to learn how to make use of supports like trees etc without have the recoil rip the skin off your knuckles on the bark!!

:)
Click to expand...

Some very good tips here spoken from Keebler. I've shot service rifle for a while too, having won B.Gen Gutknecht's Trophy for Marksmanship in Basic, topping 103 other recruits, trumping the winner in the sister platoon too :D

Now that I think about it, as much as I dislike the AR, it is freakishly light and accurate and would also be a great learning tool if you have access to one and want to 'step up'. I would not advise trying to learn on a non sportered no1 mk3/no4mk1 or any other full wood milsurp.

I got an old musket from my grandfather and I think even the most burly of men would have a job keeping a steady shot with the thing! Man, they musta been powerhorses back in the day! It's seven feet long, I believe :p
 
I don't claim to be a good shot but I learned the importance of not fatiguing muscles with this exercise so I do it regularly to drive the point home.

(With handgun, but will work for anything...)

1. Bring the gun up, fire six rounds, aiming at a small target, breathing properly for each shot, aiming each shot. Then put the gun down. Relax.

2. Now fire six more rounds, aiming at a small target, but relax and put your arms down between each shot before bringing them up again, breathing properly. Scan your body when you think you're relaxed between shots, just to make sure you are.

Compare group sizes. The #2 groupings are always better in my experience. It takes a little longer to shoot that way, but not much once you get better at relaxing "on command". YMMV.
 
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Wow, this is a lot to try and remember. I think I am going to end up droppping my daughter off at school and running up to the range alot. lol. I have a Cooey and a 10/22 and an SKS. I think I will just bring up my .22s to the range next time. I just finished cleaning my SKS, that corrosive ammo gets annoying. lol. I really appreciate all your help! Thanks! Keep the advice coming!
 
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