El Presidente

[PeterPan]

Hi guys,
I need a help.
I have got into little argument with my friend over shooting CLC-13 (http://www.ipsc.org/ics/medium/CLC-13.pdf).
In debriefing,
Start Position: Standing relaxed in Area A, back to targets, facing up range, toes of both feet against back line of Area A, both wrists above respective shoulder.

He says, you stay in box, squared, facing up range, and feet are pointed as close to 90 degree as possible, towards back line of Area A.

I say, same, except, toes are touching the lines of the box and they don't have to be locked 90 degrees.

Who is right?

 

[evan the cdn]

It doesn't specify and I don't think it needs to. Toes go in the front of shoes. As long as you could say that the front of your shoes were against the line you would be shooting within the rules.

 

[PeterPan]

Right, but against it this case means touching, also if you look at picture there are two marks on the back line, I assume for a reason.
I am getting confuse...

 

[PH Racing]

It says

Standing relaxed in Area A, back to targets facing up range, toes of both feet against back line of Area A, both wrists above respective shoulders

Anything else is an opinion. "Feet are pointed as close to 90 degree as possible?" Nope, don't see that mentioned....I hate it when people try to fill in non-existant blanks

 

[Shelldrake]

With feet "pointed as close to 90", then that would probably mean some twisting of the body? Then it wouldn't be "standing relaxed". I'm with PH Racing on this one.

 

[PeterPan]

It says
Anything else is an opinion. "Feet are pointed as close to 90 degree as possible?" Nope, don't see that mentioned....I hate it when people try to fill in non-existant blanks

Pat,

are they touching the back line of the box?

Peter

 

[evan the cdn]

Right, but against it this case means touching, also if you look at picture there are two marks on the back line, I assume for a reason.
I am getting confuse...

"Against" always means touching. I would say that those two marks represent my two feet.

 

[PH Racing]

It would be touching, but that doesn't mean they have to be "on" the box, just up against.

 

[ckc123]

I say, same, except, toes are touching the lines of the box and they don't have to be locked 90 degrees.

IMO if your feet are turned then you are not standing "relaxed", you are intentionally turning/contorting your body to not stand in a relaxed posture, which is against the starting position.

(eg.. if I told you to close your eyes, jump up and land on your feet, relaxed, then that would be the way you could start)

 

[PH Racing]

However that is just an opinion. All the requirement says is toes against the line. My relaxed stance does not have both toes at an even point, so can I argue that since the first part says I must be relaxed I don't have to follow the second? I'm not relaxed with both toes touching.

 

[ckc123]

However that is just an opinion. All the requirement says is toes against the line. My relaxed stance does not have both toes at an even point, so can I argue that since the first part says I must be relaxed I don't have to follow the second? I'm not relaxed with both toes touching.

no it does not.. read it again..

Standing relaxed in Area A

you could argue every single word in the whole description if you wanted to and who's opinion on the word matters..

eg.. does "back" refer to your back, (shoulders) why not the "back" of your head????

does "Standing relaxed" mean hunched over?? ( if you where more relaxed, your body would bend at the waist and your shoulders would be lower)

 

[Quigley]

no it does not.. read it again..



you could argue every single word in the whole description if you wanted to and who's opinion on the word matters..

eg.. does "back" refer to your back, (shoulders) why not the "back" of your head????

does "Standing relaxed" mean hunched over?? ( if you where more relaxed, your body would bend at the waist and your shoulders would be lower)

You can't take it so literally...

Your definition of relaxed goes out the window once you have your hands over your head...not too relaxing

Toes touching means just that...touching....no angle is specified in the walkthrough.

No different that "hands touching"

 

[Onthebeep]

'Standing relaxed' gives leeway on exactly how you stand, it's going to be RO's discretion. I would consider that you could stand with your toes touching the line with your feet angled off to one side as long as your upper body was facing uprange AND you are not contorted so badly so that the RO calls you on it.

 

[PH Racing]

It should never be at the RO's discretion, that's why stages get tossed in matches. It is what is written down and nothing more.

 

[evan the cdn]

I think everyone understands the "spirit" of the rule and IMHO analyzing it from every other angle does more harm than good.

If my dad were there he would say "Quit being a dumbass! Put your toes against the line, stand up straight facing up range and put your hands above your shoulders."

 

[ckc123]

You can't take it so literally...

Fine.. then as long as the targets are behind (180 degrees across) my shoulders then they are "behind".. and my back is to the targets.. I can turn my body 91 degrees from facing my target and my back is facing the target..

that not taking it "literally".. my back faces 180 degrees..

 

[evan the cdn]

Fine.. then as long as the targets are behind (180 degrees across) my shoulders then they are "behind".. and my back is to the targets.. I can turn my body 91 degrees from facing my target and my back is facing the target..

that not taking it "literally".. my back faces 180 degrees..

I have never seen anyone standing relaxed in that position.

 

[MrFritz]

12.5 Glossary
Face (facing) uprange......... The competitor’s face, chest and toes are all facing uprange.

"Facing uprange" is defined in the current rulebook.

 

[evan the cdn]

"Facing uprange" is defined in the current rulebook.

AH HA! Thank you for that.

 

[PH Racing]

Well I know I'd let you do that, mostly because I know that draw is going to be no faster than mine with my back to the target, so it really won't matter anyways.