PPSh 41 build--Shotgun News

Which he will then take to court and claim to be fighting for all of us. Want to bet he will be acting as his own lawyer? You know what they say about guys who do that.


Shame he has been punted off of here (many many times). He could try and fundraise, claiming to be a champion of the firearms cause. He has already caused a lot of distress in the CGN community with his cry of Wolf.

His schoolboy attempts at making a full auto trigger mech into a semi auto have apparently not been successful. I would say with 99% certainty that it could be operated as a full auto without modification, or if not it could have been modified within a minute into one.

He is of course reading all of this, with whatever childhood name he has registered under this week. Actually surprising he hasn't been chirping in lately.
 
He reports that he has been in touch with CILA/CSSA. If they decide to support him, I sure hope that they do enough research about him to know what they are getting into. There are some wagons to which you don't want to hitch your horse.
 
He will be like the rest of the 1,975,000 licensed firearms owners who do not belong to at least one of the 2 national organizations: he will run to them with his woes and figure he is doing them a favor by providing them with the chance to finance his fight.

To quote the visionary spencer (aka wallflower that day) on post #228 of this very thread :
In that case I'm sure it will pass the inspection too. It will be good to be able to make homemade open bolt stens and register them without a song and a dance.

I have a feeling there will very soon be several new open bolt guns approved.
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Unforunately for him, his approval and the CFC's approval were two different things in the end. He managed to get his verifiers course along with his manufacturing license, and could get his abortions FRTd over the phone. It did not take a brain surgeon to figure out that sooner or later his products would get scrutinised by the lab.
 
Can anyone quote the law which says a open bolt semi auto is NOT legal? Can anyone quote the law which says a design which can be easily converted to full auto or a design which to closely follow a full auto design is illegal? I sure can't find it. In fact I can think of several examples of these types of firearms, some mentioned in this thread, which are perfectly legal. I think a lot of what we are talking about here is based on the OPINIONS of the CFC. Based on what I’ve read on the CFC site, I can see nothing which LEGALLY stops us from building a open bolt SEMI, even if in the opinion of the CFC it’s too close to a full-auto. However that said, from a practical point of view unless you have s**ts loads of extra money to pay for lawyers and court costs, the opinion of the CFC is what will (unfortunately) count.
 
So we've acertained that wallflower/any alias thereof is on the wrong path. Is anyone else out there making any progress? Hedgehog, you mentioned you had an idea...

Also, what ever became of the full blank reciever moulds? I'm curious if a similar bolt to a sten would work in this gun... I'm of course coming at this project from a direction that is completely lacking in knowledge. Also, what I deem to be acceptable is a "ppsh-esque" creation, while I see that some others are looking to make one that is as close as physically possible, which means some of my questions are likely impossible.
 
MarkdevCanada said:
Can anyone quote the law which says a open bolt semi auto is NOT legal? Can anyone quote the law which says a design which can be easily converted to full auto or a design which to closely follow a full auto design is illegal? I sure can't find it. In fact I can think of several examples of these types of firearms, some mentioned in this thread, which are perfectly legal. I think a lot of what we are talking about here is based on the OPINIONS of the CFC. Based on what I’ve read on the CFC site, I can see nothing which LEGALLY stops us from building a open bolt SEMI, even if in the opinion of the CFC it’s too close to a full-auto. However that said, from a practical point of view unless you have s**ts loads of extra money to pay for lawyers and court costs, the opinion of the CFC is what will (unfortunately) count.
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The law does not mention open bolt firearms. Either pro or con. The SSD firearms were inspected, approved, cleared for import and commercial sale. Unfortunately, it would appear that this gentleman's efforts may have far reaching consequences.
 
tiriaq said:
The law does not mention open bolt firearms. Either pro or con.
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This is the point. Its only illegal IF the law says it is. If there is NO law making it llegal, then it is legal. Now of course from a pratical point of view, unless you have huge brass balls and unlimited money to fight it, the law is what ever the CFC says it.

The practical problem as I see is getting the CFC to put in writing their view of the law.
 
One could argue that the approval of the SSD guns did demonstrate policy. Samples were submitted for examination and approval prior to importation. The waters have now become muddied.
 
This is the point. Its only illegal IF the law says it is. If there is NO law making it llegal, then it is legal.
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The law under which the open bolt guns will get dinged is the fully automatic provisions.
I believe the line goes "capable of discharging more than one projectile in succesion with the single application of the trigger". Open bolt centerfire guns lend themselves well to this, and the trick is to make them not fire automatically. For every step a guy makes to prevent the open bolt gun from shooting full auto, there will be a simple step to bypass the safety features. Especially on something as simple as a sten mechanism. Now you can claim that you are having to modify the gun to make it full auto. In some cases yes, in some cases no. Something as simple as a 4" piece of coathanger on a sten will fire it full auto in a controlled fashion. And that is with no modification to the gun. Should the CFC allow such a gun to be on the street? Not in today's political climate they can't.
 
stencollector said:
The law under which the open bolt guns will get dinged is the fully automatic provisions.
I believe the line goes "capable of discharging more than one projectile in succesion with the single application of the trigger". Open bolt centerfire guns lend themselves well to this, and the trick is to make them not fire automatically. For every step a guy makes to prevent the open bolt gun from shooting full auto, there will be a simple step to bypass the safety features. Especially on something as simple as a sten mechanism. Now you can claim that you are having to modify the gun to make it full auto. In some cases yes, in some cases no. Something as simple as a 4" piece of coathanger on a sten will fire it full auto in a controlled fashion. And that is with no modification to the gun. Should the CFC allow such a gun to be on the street? Not in today's political climate they can't.
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Understood - would the gevarm .22 semi auto trigger mech be acceptable then? I only mention it because I did a little looking into it a while back, as my dad has owned one for years. It's designed as a .22 open bolt semi auto, that fires on closing by crushing the rimfire case. In this situation, as the original ppsh used a milled nub to fire the bullet, wouldn't that be accepable?
 
H Wally said:
Understood - would the gevarm .22 semi auto trigger mech be acceptable then? I only mention it because I did a little looking into it a while back, as my dad has owned one for years. It's designed as a .22 open bolt semi auto, that fires on closing by crushing the rimfire case. In this situation, as the original ppsh used a milled nub to fire the bullet, wouldn't that be accepable?
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There is no standard defining precisely what is acceptable.
A Gevarm trigger mechanism is simple and clever. The disconnect function does not require the bolt to hit a trip, like the Sten or PPSh. I think the BD38 mechanism has a double disconnect system. The bolt hits a trip to reset the sear, and the trigger mechanism disconnects itself, even if the bolt does not contact the trip.
The Gevarm bolt has a ridge which fires the round. The PPSH has a replacable firing pin fixed in the bolt. A Sten has a firing pin machined as an integral part of the bolt. It doesn't really make any difference, the round is fired as the breech is closing.
 
Juster said:
4" of coathanger, 8" of string. We can make a case for prohibing all sorts of things.
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I won't say how on an open forum, but the 4" of coathanger is the quick way. If the trigger mech cover comes off (two #8 machine screws), you can simply manipulate the sear with your hand, which bypasses any of the modifications done by some such as the full face sear ramp, or blocking the trip lever in place, or welding the components in.

Each gun type would have to be judged on it's own merits in the end. The techs at the RCMP lab know a bit about guns, that is why they work there. As to the piece of string, I don't believe they will be prohibiting them any time soon, but I would have to imagine that if you were caught using it in the manner you are suggesting, there would be some charge they could levy against you.
 
I read somewhere that to modify a firearm to shoot FA would be illegal. Are the rcmp allowed to introduce new devices such as a coat hanger or string to a firearm, manipulate it to fire FA, and call it illegal? Doesn't seem to fair... I mean, it is not the original firearm sort of, but a modified one, or is that what they call "easily convertible"? Would it make the gun itself prohibited, or just when used in conjunction with a FA manipulating device?

Either way, i said this before, in any build, i personally would stick to closed bolt systems. Yeah not historically accurate, but they are not so easily convertible. I'd rather lose a little bit of the originality than lose a fair sized amount of cash invested into the gun ;).

edit: by the way, what do our labs do here? I know the US batf will cut your receiver up and atleast send you back the rest of the parts and the destroyed receiver. Do they do that here, or do they just keep it all?
 
IF your gun fails the test (and is classed FA or CA) CANNOT get your gun or parts of it back to your person


you CAN do the following


1 arrange for the rcmp to send it to a gunsmith with the correct license (althrough probably not going to be allowed as its a NON-grandfatherd prohib at this point..) and since its prohib and not grandfathered your going to have the intrest of the CGD people........

2 export it again not likely

3 tell them to destroy it
 
If you are planning on going ahead with building up a semi auto Sarac 53 using your parts kit, it might be a good idea to have official written approval before investing any time or money in the project.
This would probably be a good idea for any project that did not involve a very conventional firearm.
There are also the rumours about possible changes in classifications of paramilitary type firearms. Until this is sorted out, starting any project of this mature might not be a good idea.
Seeing as this is a thread about building a PPSH reproduction, I think that the above would apply.
 
tiriaq said:
If you are planning on going ahead with building up a semi auto Sarac 53 using your parts kit, it might be a good idea to have official written approval before investing any time or money in the project.
This would probably be a good idea for any project that did not involve a very conventional firearm.
There are also the rumours about possible changes in classifications of paramilitary type firearms. Until this is sorted out, starting any project of this mature might not be a good idea.
Seeing as this is a thread about building a PPSH reproduction, I think that the above would apply.
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When i asked about a semi auto sten build, i was told all these old mg's needed new receiver, for non-r they had length restrictions, and of course semi auto. But... I suppose i could get written approval anyways, i'll send them an email or something. I'll most likely finish up the internals conversion work, and worry about a finished receiver once i am more assured i'll be "safe". Although, if they try to grandfather paramilitary stuff, i've got to be able to quickly finish it to get on that bandwagon :D.

By the way, what would the chances be of getting marstar to part out some ppsh41's if we get enough people. Or getting somebody with a prohib license to do a group buy, strip the parts for us, and keep or destroy the receivers?
Surely in these economic times marstar would not turn customers away ;)! Well, i suppose for any mg's they have (i'm particularly interested in getting a m2hb parts kit after i finish the sarac)
 
By the way, what would the chances be of getting marstar to part out some ppsh41's if we get enough people. Or getting somebody with a prohib license to do a group buy, strip the parts for us, and keep or destroy the receivers?
Surely in these economic times marstar would not turn customers away ! Well, i suppose for any mg's they have (i'm particularly interested in getting a m2hb parts kit after i finish the sarac)
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Likely pretty close to zero. Marstar has managed to remain in business for a lot of years through some very tough anti gun agendas. Part of that reason is that they will turn non-qualified customers away.

The Marstar guns (for the most part) are non-grandfathered prohibs. They are available to businesses for things like theatrical, or museums, or government agancies, but not for sales to individuals, even those with 12.X. They cannot even supply the guns as deacts since that is not a legal purpose for importing them.

There is a reason why those guns shown are half the price that they should otherwise be....because you can't get them.

I have heard tale that they may supply the guns as kits to guys who already legally hold the same gun, but I doubt very much that they would risk their license over selling $500 supmi kits in bulk to Canadians.
 
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