Beware of Remintons
- Thread starter scott_r
- Start date
- Location
- Grande Prairie, Alberta
i've got a 2 year old 700 SPS DM in 7mm Rem Mag. it's my favorite gun that i own, hands down. good shooter, dependable and very well made as far as i'm concerned.
Your bolt was faulty from the factory with some brass... not all brass... but the factory should have fixed it under warranty. I would have pushed them hard if their warranty depot was reluctant..
It had the slip in extractor rather than the riveted extractor. The slip in extractor cannot be "tweaked" to fix minor problems as the riveted one can.
The Sako extractor conversion done on 700's is only part of the Sako extractor system. Don't confuse the Sako extractor on three lug actions compared to two lug actions. Three lug actions contain gas in a different manner. On the two locking lug Sako actions there is a "bolt guide" bar that is designed to stop/deflect gas and shrapnel if there is a catastrophic case failure. When the Sako extractor is added to a 700 action, no one adds this "bolt guide". Safety is greatly compromised if you have a case fail. There was one death in Benchrest shooting associated with this as well as eye injuries in other instances. It is rare to have a catastrophic case failure but if it happens be prepared to face the consequences. The Sako extractor conversion also causes the shell to eject considerably higher, in some cases striking the scope with ejection problems occurring. The unaltered design of the 700 action makes it the strongest, safest bolt action ever made.
Here is a picture of a 2 lug Sako action that blew up. You can see the "bolt guide" performed as designed. You can imagine how all the debris would have been free to exit reward if that "bolt guide" had not been there.
It had the slip in extractor rather than the riveted extractor. The slip in extractor cannot be "tweaked" to fix minor problems as the riveted one can.
The Sako extractor conversion done on 700's is only part of the Sako extractor system. Don't confuse the Sako extractor on three lug actions compared to two lug actions. Three lug actions contain gas in a different manner. On the two locking lug Sako actions there is a "bolt guide" bar that is designed to stop/deflect gas and shrapnel if there is a catastrophic case failure. When the Sako extractor is added to a 700 action, no one adds this "bolt guide". Safety is greatly compromised if you have a case fail. There was one death in Benchrest shooting associated with this as well as eye injuries in other instances. It is rare to have a catastrophic case failure but if it happens be prepared to face the consequences. The Sako extractor conversion also causes the shell to eject considerably higher, in some cases striking the scope with ejection problems occurring. The unaltered design of the 700 action makes it the strongest, safest bolt action ever made.
Here is a picture of a 2 lug Sako action that blew up. You can see the "bolt guide" performed as designed. You can imagine how all the debris would have been free to exit reward if that "bolt guide" had not been there.
Your bolt was faulty from the factory with some brass... not all brass... but the factory should have fixed it under warranty. I would have pushed them hard if their warranty depot was reluctant..
It had the slip in extractor rather than the riveted extractor. The slip in extractor cannot be "tweaked" to fix minor problems as the riveted one can.
The Sako extractor conversion done on 700's is only part of the Sako extractor system. Don't confuse the Sako extractor on three lug actions compared to two lug actions. Three lug actions contain gas in a different manner. On the two locking lug Sako actions there is a "bolt guide" bar that is designed to stop/deflect gas and shrapnel if there is a catastrophic case failure. When the Sako extractor is added to a 700 action, no one adds this "bolt guide". Safety is greatly compromised if you have a case fail. There was one death in Benchrest shooting associated with this as well as eye injuries in other instances. It is rare to have a catastrophic case failure but if it happens be prepared to face the consequences. The Sako extractor conversion also causes the shell to eject considerably higher, in some cases striking the scope with ejection problems occurring. The unaltered design of the 700 action makes it the strongest, safest bolt action ever made.
Here is a picture of a 2 lug Sako action that blew up. You can see the "bolt guide" performed as designed. You can imagine how all the debris would have been free to exit reward if that "bolt guide" had not been there.
What would cause a failure like that on a Sako action? Overcharge, head space, combination? Just curious as I shoot these actions mainly! Thanks.
I believe just plain old overload... probably wrong powder... It was a .243.
Wow! Not pretty at all, the worst thing I personally have had is a stuck primer to a bolt face. I was very lucky and learned quickly to NOT start at MAX loads when working a load up on a new rifle. Could have been a lot worse! }:-(
So by 'tweaking' it are you referring to opening up or bending the 'C-shaped' extractor so the ejector edge sits closer to the case? Just want to know as I have a friend that complains of a similar problem with his 700. Thx.
that's what I did with one of mine a few years back..but, like Dennis says, it has to be the riveted extractor....the non-riveted extractor just moves around too much.
I had the same problem with one that I had rebarreled to 221 Fireball, the shorter case of the Fireball exacerbates the problem because the shorter case sits at a more severe angle to the bolt face as the mouth of the case drags on the chamber wall during extraction, it would pop off the extractor before it cleared the receiver....
I don't know if Remington does anything special to the 221 bolts but I could not get this one to work, so it was rebarreled to 223 and it worked fine...then I bought a CZ 527 in a Fireball...this little action feeds, extracts and ejects the little Fireball case perfectly.
- Location
- Prince George B.C
I think the problem is that Remington can no longer be fully trusted. An 870 used to be the quintessential pump shotgun; a garbage compactor for cheap shells, now you can buy an express that doesn't have enough paint on it, and jams if you look at it funny. You can also hear similar quality control issues with the 22's and the 700's. They aren't that cheap! i don't think its acceptable to ask the customer to do anything to a brand new firearm. You need to compete with the cheap crap, accept the consequences.
I don't have one here but if it is a 2 lug action I would say there is nothing stopping the extractor from blowing back if there is a catastrophic case failure. I think the old Sako's are safer. You have to remember extreme case failures are not common and probably unheard of with factory loads. Push it beyond limits and it will bite.
I have bought and work with about 200 new rifles over the past 25 years. In the last ten years or so I have bought 13 new Remintons, every single one of them had something wrong or needed work to get it to shoot even close to acceptable. Some folks have good luck, but not me. I will never buy another Remington rifle. Sako, Tikka, Browning and Ruger no problems. It always gets me when I talk to somebody at the range claiming their Reminton is the greatest rifle, but its wearing an after market stock, replacement trigger, custom barrel and has been accurized by a custom gunsmith. Sure its a good shooter Bell and Carlson stock, Kreiger barrel,Timmy trigger and Sako extractor.
You will never catch me hunting with a Remington of any kind after an experience I had with a borrowed 700 in .270win. Thanks to an extractor failure I did not fill my muley tag last year. After that initial failure the extractor only works 50 percent of the time at best. I tweeked the riveted extractor, but then the bolt would not close untill I ground some more chamfer on the extractor. Now it's stiffer to close than it should be, but maybe it'll work reliably ...untill the next time it fails!
WW2 era actions are built better than this.
That, and an experience my brother had with a 597 SA 22 that couldn't get through a 10rd clip without jamming four times on average with three different brands of ammo. Sent it back to SIR for a refund.
Ask Deer Nut on Hunting BC how he likes his brand new 700XCR that extracts but won't eject, and can't get his money back on the stupid thing. Oh and it craters primers because Remington "designed it that way."
I bought a Tikka T3 Lite S/S in .270win and couldn't be more pleased. People make a big deal about the synthetic stock and clip, but I have yet to hear of anyone breaking a clip. If you don't like the synthetic stock buy the laminate or hunter version. It doesn't take a rock scientist to look at the Tikka action next to the Remington action and decide which one was engineered better. European quality is where it's at for me.
A lot of people love their Remingtons the same way they love their Dodge Caravans, and last time I read the Consumer Reports they too were 86% below average on reliability.
WW2 era actions are built better than this.
That, and an experience my brother had with a 597 SA 22 that couldn't get through a 10rd clip without jamming four times on average with three different brands of ammo. Sent it back to SIR for a refund.
Ask Deer Nut on Hunting BC how he likes his brand new 700XCR that extracts but won't eject, and can't get his money back on the stupid thing. Oh and it craters primers because Remington "designed it that way."
I bought a Tikka T3 Lite S/S in .270win and couldn't be more pleased. People make a big deal about the synthetic stock and clip, but I have yet to hear of anyone breaking a clip. If you don't like the synthetic stock buy the laminate or hunter version. It doesn't take a rock scientist to look at the Tikka action next to the Remington action and decide which one was engineered better. European quality is where it's at for me.
A lot of people love their Remingtons the same way they love their Dodge Caravans, and last time I read the Consumer Reports they too were 86% below average on reliability.
Interesting... My SPS-V in .223 is very tight with ammo as well. You have to move the bolt forward and down in a very swift firm motion. If you try and just guide it in there nice and slow, you really have to put some effort in pushing it down.
Last time after coming back from the range, I found a LOT of shaved off brass, both on the bottom of the bolt (from the rought "matte" finish scraping against the cartridges in the magazine, aw well, at least there's no shine to scare the wildlife away
) and on the bolt face. There were shards in the face, sheared off the base of the brass. I have yet to take it to the range again to determine if all this brass junking up the rifle was the reason for the tightness, or if nothing has improved since cleaning it all out.Sad how my $400 Savage package rifle works smoothly and flawlessly compared to this now $850 rifle (damn glad I didn't pay that ridiculous price for it, the $850 was at the CT on MacLeod Trail and Southland here in Calgary).
Having said that, I love my 870 Express. I have had no problems whatsoever with it. I love the SPS-V in every way too, but I'm a little disappointed that I'm having this problem with it. I wasn't expecting it at all when I first took it out to the range
. Like many here, it has made me very leary about any other Remmys. Hopefully they smarten up before they go down the toilet like Winchester.
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Reminfgtons
A young guy on this site bought a Remington 700 Police in 223 and had to get it replaced. The guns both have a firing pin hole that was too big and the primer flowed back into the hole. He had to send it back for replacement and from my observation I would try to find an older model to shoot before I bought a new one.
A young guy on this site bought a Remington 700 Police in 223 and had to get it replaced. The guns both have a firing pin hole that was too big and the primer flowed back into the hole. He had to send it back for replacement and from my observation I would try to find an older model to shoot before I bought a new one.
I presently own two older 700's & my personal feeling of why there are/were so popular is that every decent gunsmith knew how to make a great shooter out of one. Their best attribute was their fast lock time. But it wasn't always the best shooter out of the box. Heavy triggers, barrels binding on the stock & crappy extractors were some of the main complaints made to a smith. Sako & Tikka make excellent rifles, no doubt about it. But Ruger, Winchester & Browning have made their fair share of dogs over the years as well...
I guess
I am very fortunate with my Remington 700's. I have a SPS just over a year old and no troubles with it.
Mind you I could care less if there is because it was purchased as a donor anyways for a future project.
I am very fortunate with my Remington 700's. I have a SPS just over a year old and no troubles with it.
Mind you I could care less if there is because it was purchased as a donor anyways for a future project.
Interesting... My SPS-V in .223 is very tight with ammo as well. You have to move the bolt forward and down in a very swift firm motion. If you try and just guide it in there nice and slow, you really have to put some effort in pushing it down.
Sad how my $400 Savage package rifle works smoothly and flawlessly compared to this now $850 rifle (damn glad I didn't pay that ridiculous price for it, the $850 was at the CT on MacLeod Trail and Southland here in Calgary).
Having said that, I love my 870 Express. I have had no problems whatsoever with it. I love the SPS-V in every way too, but I'm a little disapointed that I'm having this problem with it. I wasn't expecting it at all when I first took it out to the range
I think everyone knows there are lemons with every maker and that's where the dealer and manufacturer have to step up and make us the consumer happy within reason, of course. I'm no expert, but it sounds like there could be a head spacing issue with your .223 and it might be worth having it looked into.
I still think the 870 is the way to go with shot guns. I tried life with a Mossberg and it just didn't do it for me-- got rid of it and am saving up for a Rem now... hope I won't be disappointed when i get it.
My only Remington to this point has been a 597 base model .22 LR. When I first got it, the thing was absolutely terrific -- especially for a $160 rifle! After 3000 rounds the firing pin broke and it was a jam-o-matic. Sent it back to Crappy Tire on McLeod Trail to fix it as it was only 4 months old (ya I shoot a lot of gophers). They took forever 4 months to put in a new firing pin and I got it back now. The gun just isn't the same. I get stovepipes roughly every other clip, and sometimes for two or three shots in a row. This really irritates me as I loved it before and it was flawless.
Is it fair to compare this experience to other Rem 700s? Maybe, maybe not. But so far, I'm sitting on the fence when it comes to the new Remington quality, and if the 870 I get in the future doesn't dazzle me, I'll quickly turn into a Remington deserter.
Hey Proonur, did you switch ammo or go from a copper coated bullet to a straight lead bullet? If not they must of messed up the reassembly or over torqued something because replacement of the firing pin shouldn't give you FTF or FTE, unless the the shell is impaled on the end of the firing pin...
It always gets me when I talk to somebody at the range claiming their Reminton is the greatest rifle, but its wearing an after market stock, replacement trigger, custom barrel and has been accurized by a custom gunsmith. Sure its a good shooter Bell and Carlson stock, Kreiger barrel,Timmy trigger and Sako extractor.
For the most part I often see the same thing with 10/22 owners.
Also personally I have seen enough over the last few years to keep me from buying a modern Remington firearm.
