What do you think Bushnell and Night Force

Ian Robertson said:
Okay, does no one shoot 1000 yds here? Does no one care about tracking?? I guess I need to figure this out for myself?? Optics don't matter, scores do!!
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When I did my 223 to a mile project, I went with a then new Bushnell Elite 4200 6x24 - 50 tactical. The tracking was superb with respect to amount, linearity, repeatability when I did a short range test. Near calibre sized repeatability at 40yds.

In use from 1450 to 1740yds, it was always exactly what I was expecting. I am sure you can imagine that if a scope 'dragged it's feet' at those distances, the error would be enormous.

I used 45mins of up plus 3 mildots to make the trip so small changes on distances required that scope tracking be bang on or I would be all over the hillside.

Glad to report that I had no issue staying on MOAish sized boulders at any distance I cared to shoot ie shoot, change, shoot, change without needing zeroing sighters.

The first scope I ever saw this level of tracking was the then new Elite 3200 10X. Not the best optics in the world but that scoped tracked wonderfully.

I compete in F class and usually use my reticle to dope conditions, however, I have used several 4200 6x24AO mildot scopes for my LR plinking endeavors from 300yds to 1100yds without issue. Each click is slightly more then 1/8min but at least it is consistent.

I used these scopes on my LR hunting rigs and again, if you don't feel confident when you dial up, you shouldn't take the shot at an animal. No issue tracking within the accuracy of my rifles.

Just starting work with an Elite 6500 2.5X16-42mm. So far so good but really haven't given it a hard workout. Should get to that in the next couple of weeks.

Jerry
 
how do you measure MOA of a rock? have you ever walked out there and actually measured what your shooting at? and finally out of ten shots how many hits were you making.
 
Duck, I would but I have taken too many for the team as is!

The problem is that it does not move like it should, I don't need a box test to know its nfg! Lots of different makes have these problems hence my dilemma. Throwing money at the issue does not seem to be any guarantee.
 
Mutt-roc said:
how do you measure MOA of a rock? have you ever walked out there and actually measured what your shooting at? and finally out of ten shots how many hits were you making.
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I do walk in and measure my target rocks. I also can use my reticle as I have measured the area it subtends.

If you do a search, you can find a video of my 223 at a mile shooting. In the second segment, I dropped one shot short of the target due to a headwind gust but got the rest on target. Went 5 for 6 shots.

The rock was 15" wide as we saw it from the base of the hill. 5 to 8" tall - this is a boulder not a block of steel.

At these distances, hitting a target has more to do with condition doping then mechanical accuracy. My rifles can do the job....Me, not so much :)

Jerry
 
Duck_Hunter said:
How many high end scopes have you seen fail?
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My Leupold 8.5-25X had a slightly loose front lens. Resulted in 3/4" to 1" groups at 100 yards, from a rifle that ought to have been capable of much better. It was a small enough problem so that the scope wasn't my first suspect, it took me *months* of work and frustration before I finally figured it out. Leupold fixed it for free (their warranty really is as good as they say it is), however the whole experience was a very expensive one for me. And I don't particularly blame Leupold; they make good stuff, pretty much as good as anybody, but this is normal ordinary mechanical and optical gear, and various things can ad do go wrong.

My Leupold 6.5-20X has a weak spring, and needs to be sent in for fixing again; I just haven't gotten around to it yet, and can (mostly) live with it for now. I just have to keep track of where it is that the scope starts to run out of elevation, and where the windage goes wonky. Easy enough to do with a collimator and a notebook.

Just because the scope that you buy is "the best", or "one of the best", doesn't mean that it is infallible. Anything that can go wrong, might go wrong. The only thing you can reasonably expect from a top-tier scope is that it will be better than a crappier scope.

My barrel maker told me (re: Leupolds) "basically they're a piece of s***". Being young, keen, and flush with money looking for a place to be spent, I asked him what there was that was better, that perhaps I should buy instead (this was in the mid-90s, before Nightforce, US Optics etc were around), he said "they are the best; they're still pieces of s*** though".
 
Ian,

I'm running a 12-42 NF BR for F/Tr. It was nice on the old target. It's damn nice on the new one. During my prep period I set power at 42x, and while looking through the scope, turn the power down until I have the best possible view of the target for the current conditions. More often than not I end up around 35x or so. Last August during the CFRC's there were times when the mirage was really muddy and I was down to 22x or so, but other times the light was so perfect that I used all the power I had, and could have used more.

As for repeatability, it's fantastic. My 100m zero leaves 4 minutes of down left. With good notes, going to the 100m zero and then cranking on elevation for whatever distance I need just works. Period. We shoot out to 900m here in NB, and lots of days finish at 900m, w/ the next one starting back at 300m. There are no problems w/ cranking on whatever elevation I need and wondering how close I'll be.

Two weeks ago I had an unfortunate test of the durability of said scope. I staged my rifle and gear behind the 900m berm and went to the line to RO the first relay. My attention was drawn back to my gear when I realized that the crunch I had just heard was my rifle being run over by a minivan!!! My fault- I'd staged my gear in the shade of another competitor's vehicle and neglected to tell him. The front burris signature zee ring was bent sideways so the scope objective was 2" to the left of the barrel. The good news was the ring inserts allowed the tube to pivot instead of kink. I replaced the rings w/ a spare set. Turned the scope back to my 100m zero, and then cranked on my 900 elevation from the day before. 4 rounds later I was in the 5 on the TR target. Elevation was 1/2 minute off, wind was 6 minutes off. This w/ switching to Leupold QWR rings that were lower than the Burris rings. I shot 2x 900m and then 2x 800m that day and won the match. I think the scope is fine, but I contacted NF about doing a mechanical check on the scope before heading to the FCWC's and they were very, very reluctant. They kept saying that they had a 6 week turnaround time and the scope was probably ok. I really don't want to get all the way to England w/ "probably" ringing in my ears, and really can't afford an $1800+ backup scope. After intervention from one of their sales reps, they agreed to check it, but it took some real convincing. If they do fine a problem , it's my dime- another difference from Leupold.
About my only beef w/ Nightforce is they really KNOW that they're the best. They know that I have very few other choices out there if I want an 8-32, and even fewer 12-42's. My affordable relacement options are a one of the new Sightrons, a fixed 36 from Weaver, Sightron, or Leupold, of suck it up and pay out for another NF. On the perfect days, a fixed 36 or even 40-45 would be great, but not on the fishbowl mirage days. So, I wait and hope my phone rings w/ good news very soon.
 
mpwolf said:
If they do fine a problem , it's my dime- another difference from Leupold.
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Not saying you're wrong, but I can't imagine Leupold fixing a scope that was run over due to your carelessness, for free. I say this because a friend was guiding and fell carrying a loaded pack. When he dropped the rifle in the boulder field he was navigating the objective lens was smashed and the objective bell of the scope torn loose. Leupold (Korth) told him that they wouldn't warranty it because of the nature of the damage.

YMMV
 
mpwolf said:
I'm not saying that they should cover the damage- it's most definatly my fault- but I've heard of Leupold USA fixing some damage that made me wonder.
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I've heard those stories too and I think that's the crux... Leupold and Korth are definately 2 different animals. Korth is good, but Leupold is great.
 
The biggest problem is with high end scopes. They don't offer financing. :D ;)

I'd love to have and look through all the high end scopes but with all that is said here, it boils down to what I could afford and personal preferance. A NF, Bushy, Leup, STron ect ect, they could all be on the same firing line and in the end they all win something. People have different eyes. If I shoot 10 Vs with a Tasco and some shoots 8 with a bushy does it mean his optics are crappy? In the end it is just a tube with glass.

Great debate. :)
 
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