Antique Bear Handgun

D

David_K

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Edmonton, AB
Would it be legal to carry an antique revolver on your hip while out in the woods to use as protection against a bear? Also, what round/revolver would be best suited to this use? Having easy to find ammo/reloading components is a plus too. I'm just finding out about this Antique status pistols thing. It would be nice to not lug around a shotgun full of 00 Buck.
 
As far as I know it is legal to dis-charge an antique pistol any where it is legal to discharge a rifle, I would definitly carry a letter of antique status if I were going to do that! As far as a caliber I would say something in 44 cal would be best, or at least better than a stick.
 
No reason you can't carry it. Must be carried in plain view though and I always carry the CFC fact sheet with me. As far as caliber I'd stick to a 455 webley or 45 schofield. Even an .41 colt with a decent load should stop a bear up close although I'd still prefer a shotgun with OOB when things get scary......
 
I have a few Antique revolvers that can push a 250 gr .454 dia keith bullet 1200 FPS but thats with a load of 2400 powder, but them are my Special custom solid framed guns ;).

Most 240 to 250 Gr bullets doing 700 to 800 FPS is gona do the deed up close on a black or a cougar wolf ect, id figger.
my Antique 44 Russian and or 44 SP SAA colt shoots about 850 FPS which is a comfortable accurate load.

Remember the reason you have and antique revolver on your hip any place its legal to Discharge a None Restricted firearm is for target shooting.
Thats what your reason must be or they will try and say you are useing it for hunting.
You cant hunt in B.C with a handgun even and Antique one.
But you can and should target shoot in remoat loctations :)
Shooting at cans or paper or Cactus or other drought resistant plants ect is AOK.:D
 
This custom antique 1875 remington army in 45 schofield shoots the heavy loads that im sure placed right would blow a nice hole in any bears skull.
PA240015.jpg



Same type of Antique Remy 1875 Revolver with lighter 800 FPS Trail boss loads shot this group at 50 Yds
PC080025.jpg
 
dingus said:
I have a few Antique revolvers that can push a 250 gr .454 dia keith bullet 1200 FPS but thats with a load of 2400 powder, but them are my Special custom solid framed guns ;).

Most 240 to 250 Gr bullets doing 700 to 800 FPS is gona do the deed up close on a black or a cougar wolf ect, id figger.
my Antique 44 Russian and or 44 SP SAA colt shoots about 850 FPS which is a comfortable accurate load.

Remember the reason you have and antique revolver on your hip any place its legal to Discharge a None Restricted firearm is for target shooting.
Thats what your reason must be or they will try and say you are useing it for hunting.
You cant hunt in B.C with a handgun even and Antique one.
But you can and should target shoot in remoat loctations :)
Shooting at cans or paper or Cactus or other drought resistant plants ect is AOK.:D
Click to expand...

Bear defence isn't hunting.
 
How about a .476 Webley or Enfeild . My .476 bullet weighs 295gr and has a diameter of .473 and is hollow based with a full load of fffg Black it packs some serious punch. for strictly defence black powder is fine as I don't think you will care about cleaning after it saves you from being mauled . when the British did tests the. 476 was one of the best stoppers they shot live pigs to test them and in there tests did better than the 45LC. Now lets consider a howda pistol Mine is a muzzel loader takes a .620 patched ball backed by 40grs of Black now you have some serious stopping power but only 2 shots
.
P4010018.jpg
 
Wildbore said:
Bear defence isn't hunting.
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I agree! but you tell that to a CO when it happens, lets us know how it turns out for you.


Id be guessing you better have a few Scratchs at least or one witness.

I never said Bear defence was hunting.


Also in case you guys didnt know this the RCMP Antique letters have changed again.
They say in the letter you should carry the letter with the gun.
Thats New!
They also say in the letters that the Antique Status is based on "your" Discription of that gun to the RCMP.
I dont like the new letters as much as the old letters.
 
I think one thing you should consider is the relatively low power of most antique handgun loads. The muzzle energy of the .455 Webley is around 200 - 250 foot pounds, the 44 Colt around 500 - 600 foot pounds and for comparison the 44 magnum is roughly 1000 foot pounds. Energies vary some depending on bullet and load combination. The main point is that the Alaska Fish and Wildlife Service tested a wide variety of guns and cartridges for bear defense and felt that the 44 magnum was the only handgun suitable for bear defense and even it was only marginally suitable compared to virtually all of the rifles.

Most or all of the antique handguns are in pretty anemic cartridges and while most would kill a bear if you shot it in the side of the head at point blank range, they are also of extremely dubious value in a true defensive situation. If the risk of a bear attack is all that great, you would be far better off with a relatively short light rifle such as a 30-30.

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
I think one thing you should consider is the relatively low power of most antique handgun loads. The muzzle energy of the .455 Webley is around 200 - 250 foot pounds, the 44 Colt around 500 - 600 foot pounds and for comparison the 44 magnum is roughly 1000 foot pounds. Energies vary some depending on bullet and load combination. The main point is that the Alaska Fish and Wildlife Service tested a wide variety of guns and cartridges for bear defense and felt that the 44 magnum was the only handgun suitable for bear defense and even it was only marginally suitable compared to virtually all of the rifles.

Most or all of the antique handguns are in pretty anemic cartridges and while most would kill a bear if you shot it in the side of the head at point blank range, they are also of extremely dubious value in a true defensive situation. If the risk of a bear attack is all that great, you would be far better off with a relatively short light rifle such as a 30-30.

cheers mooncoon
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While i agree haveing a Rifle or Shotgun is better i think if i have a Choice of haveing a pointed Stick or one of my better Antique Handguns id take the handgun.
I know mine will blow a cougar clean off my back if i dont shoot myself doing it :D

And your Fish and game stats are to do with the Griz arnt they.
I know my hanguns would take out a Black bear no trobles at close range.
But best to have a 870 if in bear country.

Whats that old saying ya need a Handgun to fight your way back to the rifle ya shoulda never left in the frist place ;)
 
while the paper deals primarily with grizzlies, I think most people greatly overestimate the power of handguns, particularly antique ones. As an example, I recall firing a .58 cal percussion pistol into a piece of cedar, with the muzzle touching the wood. 30 gr of 3F and a patched 58 round ball. The ball stuck with half of it sticking out of the wood. Also remember shooting 32 S&W shells into a fir back stop and roughly 1/2 of the slug was left outside the wood. I don't question that pistols will kill bears but not by a great margin. Better than a pointed stick but not much better.

cheers mooncoon
 
:agree:

But at the same time Dingus makes a really good point that a decent antique handgun like a .44 Russian DA is a LOT better than throwing your waterbottle at it. It also is easier to carry. A regular rifle and shotgun would be better but then you don't get the advantage of antiques legal status.

If to be legally safe I have to take a few target shots while out in the bush that seems like fun rather than a chore. Definitely better to say target shooting rather than "bear defense" if there is any chance of the fish cops giving you grief about it.
 
For Dangerous Wildlife (no legs, two legs, and four) a pistol can be carried constantly, and brought to action quickly, even when bathing (kept hanging next to the towel if you must ask) Second choice is a good coachgun loaded with 00 buck. The first rule of carry is: "have a gun" the second rule: (and THE most important) is one within reach at all times... ;-)
 
mooncoon said:
while the paper deals primarily with grizzlies, I think most people greatly overestimate the power of handguns, particularly antique ones. As an example, I recall firing a .58 cal percussion pistol into a piece of cedar, with the muzzle touching the wood. 30 gr of 3F and a patched 58 round ball. The ball stuck with half of it sticking out of the wood. Also remember shooting 32 S&W shells into a fir back stop and roughly 1/2 of the slug was left outside the wood. I don't question that pistols will kill bears but not by a great margin. Better than a pointed stick but not much better.

cheers mooncoon
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Well no wonder a 58 Caliber (almost 60 Caliber) soft lead ball wont go into a hard pice of wood and a 32 S&W is like a Hornet to any Bear.
You just posted that to get me going didnt you :p

Come on a 44 Russian or 45 Colt or 45 schofield going at 800 FPS + would all do major damage.
I could drop any deer Easy at 100 Yds with a side shot from either my SAA Colt in 44 Sp or 45 Schofield in a Remy 1875 Army revolver IF it were legal.

Loading 2400 smokeless gun powder is a compleatly diffrent ball game than BP.
The orignal poster is asking about Handguns today that have antique status and what they can and cant do.

Best advise i can give ANY gunnut on here that wants to learn about Antique Handguns and loading them and what they can do.....Ect
Buy Elmer keith book SIX GUNS

You can get it on Ebay its like less than $20 US.

you will love reading it unless your a girly boy who loves to frolic about in dasiy feilds skipping holding hands with stephan Dion :D
 
BWahaha dingus you kill me :D

I gotta add that the WWll .380 fmj ammo that I was blasting last week outta a Belgian bulldog I picked up would give the desired penetration for bear...not a very big iron but would beat the pointy stick any day ;)
 
A bear is a tough creature, but ANY GUN can do considerable damage to it, including instant death... it all depends where you shoot it.

:D

P.S. Some antiques I've seen so far are really nice guns... on par with many modern six shooters, plus some of them use very decent ammo & still loadable. I guess that buying a book and reading up on some of this stuff is a very good recommendation - a reloading book/supplies/equipment will most likely be a must too if you decide to venture that way.

This is exactly why governments don't give a crap about guys like us and their antiques... because they know damn well that only truly passionate gun owners/collectors are into this particular hobby. A gangbanger off the street won't be interested in finding a pre-1898 pistol & learning to reload for it just so he can ride around the 'hood with it tucked under his shorts. Those types prefer stolen Glocks and factory 9mm ammo - largely available at any city street corner, if you happen to know who to ask... :rolleyes:
 
"...legal to carry an antique revolver on your hip..." No.
"...00 Buck..." Unreliable at best. 12 in a 2.75" to 18 pellets in a 3.5" won't hit Yogi hard enough, far away enough to reliably kill Yogi. At close range, it's too late.
 
dingus said:
Well no wonder a 58 Caliber (almost 60 Caliber) soft lead ball wont go into a hard pice of wood and a 32 S&W is like a Hornet to any Bear.
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I believe I mentioned that the wood was cedar and is one of the softest woods here in BC. A 22 longrifle would go at least 1 - 2" into the wood (fir) that stopped the 32 and I firmly believe that a 38 S&W would be about the same ie only penetrate about 1/2 a bullet length into the wood

cheers mooncoon
 
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