357mag as well as 38 special powders (ONE LAST QUESTION just to clarify) thanks

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mpjustin

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I am new to reloading 357 and 38 and was wondering what a good allround powder for both rounds. I am shooting them out of a ruger GP100.
I would also like it to be fairly clean.
how would tight group work for both? (I already have some)

Also could I make a load anywere inbetween 38 and 357mag in a 357case? (kind of like a mild 357 load and stronger than a 38+p)
And my last question is can I load 38 special loads in a 357mag case?

the bullets I have are 110gr hornedy hp-xtp's and 158 remington SJHP's

sorry for so many questions but I appritiate the help.

cheers,
Justin
 
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You will get lots of response and suggestions on this one. FYI, the use of Titegroup is a great choice for both and cleaner burning than others. Also using W231/HP38 is fine. However if you want to use full house loads in the 357, try W296/H110 but carefully use the data from a reliable source. Oh and yes to your other questions. The GP100 is a fine gun and you will have a lot of fun with it..
Cheers
dB
 
One powder for a wide variety of bullet weights and being able to load to 38+P and down as well? Hard to beat HP-38, and Longshot is a good one too. Titegroup is excellent for mild loads, but too fast to load up to 38+P, and H-110 is excellent for heavy magnum loads, but can't be loaded down safely.
 
I also use Titegroup, but W231 might be a better choice as it is a bit slower. The only drawback is these 2 powders are relatively fast and you can not get max loads with heavy bullets. It will still be fine for your 110 gr bullets and all but max loads with 158gr in 357mag cases.

EDIT: HP-38 powder that Andy mentions above is the same powder as W231

As for W296/H110 (they are the same powder) it is ONLY for max loads (357mag) typically with heavy bullets. Use the manufacturer's recommendations for loads because they DON'T recommend decreasing loads too much with this powder.
 
Andy said:
One powder for a wide variety of bullet weights and being able to load to 38+P and down as well? Hard to beat HP-38, and Longshot is a good one too. Titegroup is excellent for mild loads, but too fast to load up to 38+P, and H-110 is excellent for heavy magnum loads, but can't be loaded down safely.
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If the tight group is to fast to load up to 38+p load then how come on hodgens data they sugest to use it to load up to 357mag? Is it safe or just not the best powder to use?
 
mpjustin said:
If the tight group is to fast to load up to 38+p load then how come on hodgens data they sugest to use it to load up to 357mag? Is it safe or just not the best powder to use?
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SandRoad answered that - you can't get max velocity with the heavier bullets with Titegroup (it's too fast). A "Magnum Load" only means near max 357 pressures, and any powder can produce those pressures, but only the slower powders (that fill the case) can produce the highest velocity with the heaviest bullets.

There isn't any one powder that will do it all. Your best choice for a powder that will do most things well is a medium speed powder that typically fills the case about half way +/-, i.e. 8-10 grs.
 
that make sense. thanks Like they say "one thing that can do everything kinda good but if you want the best you need something that only does one thing great" or something like that.
 
"...in a 357 case..." Yep. Loading .357 brass to .38 velocities eliminates having to clean the cylinders too.
Bullseye works just fine out of my GP. You will find shooting jacketed bullets gets expensive fast though.
 
I personally decided to stop shooting pretty much all .38 out of my revolvers. Moving up to W296. I'm at 14.6gr under 160gr AIM's (They measure at 160gr). Sooo Nice. Plan on doing the upcoming ODPL match with them :)

My GP-100 should be smoking hot by the end :)
 
Just a note of caution to new reloaders when using plated bullets in revolvers. Do not overcrimp as u will compromise (cut thru) the plated surface(some much less plating than others), resulting in fragments of the bullet spitting out the cylinder gap and elsewhere. The little bits of copper can be very painful to remove from your face and hands. See the notation on the AIM website. They are the only manufacturer of plated bullets I know of to have acknowledged this potential problem. Dont be scared, just be careful..
Cheers
dB
 
You already have lots of answers to chew on, but might as well have some more.
You asked about loads between hot 38 Special and 357. Go ahead, take your pick, any speed you want and they can be loaded in either the 38 or the 357 mag cases. Your choice.
There are any number of faster powders that can load both calibres, if you don't want full power from your 357. Unique comes to mind and in my opinion, is superior to 231, for that purpose.
You have a very strong revolver in that Ruger. It would be a shame not to load up some full power loads for it. For this purpose, the traditional standby powder has been 2400.
The old Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets, show 158 and 160 grain cast bullets getting 1550 fps with 2400.
They show a 150 grain bullet getting over 1500 fps with Unique.
2400 gets 1617 from the same bullet with 2400 powder, according to Lyman.
All the listings for 2400 are the old Hercules powder, but I think the new 2400 is very, very similar.
 
gunrunner8 said:
Would W680 be to slow for 180gr hard cast bulet in 6" barrel 357 mag? Has anyone try this combination before?
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Never tried it as W680 is an obsolete powder. It's probably too slow - it's even slower than H4227 and up in the H4198 range (which is way too slow for the 357 Mag). I'd start at the W296 max load of 13.5 grs and work up until you hit 1450 fps (won't happen) or a full case. I'd bet a full case tops out at under 1200 fps. When you use too slow a powder, you not only don't get top velocities, you often are below the working pressure for the powder and can get inconsistent results.
 
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just to clarify.
hornadys book says their 38 spiecal load is 4.0gr - 5.4gr +P
and hodgens load data for 357mag load is 7.2gr - 8.0gr
all this data is for TIGHT GROUP powder
both with the hornady 110gr bullet XTP HP
So would it be OK to load the 357mag cases with 5.5gr - 7.0gr (this is inbetween the 38max load and below the 357mag min load.)
Is there any harm going below the minimum 357load?

thanks again,
Justin
 
H4831 said:
There are any number of faster powders that can load both calibres, if you don't want full power from your 357. Unique comes to mind and in my opinion, is superior to 231, for that purpose.
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I used to 'play' with 38SPL and 357 Mag loads in the 357 Mag revolvers but for the most part, with a supply of 357 cases fairly readily available, I think you're better off forgetting about 38 SPL loads. You can vary the power/velocity using 357 cases with the same or usually better results.

Going to one powder that will that will fit the bill for a full range of power and velocity loads, Unique has been and still is an excellent choice. It has been and still is one that I use frequently. My choice for full power loads is 2400 and/or H110. I have found todays 2400 seems to be a little hotter than the old Hercules 2400 and I've had to drop the loads in my 44's accordingly to compensate for that. For the light wadcutter/target loads, I still stick with Bullseye. Again, one powder that will serve your needs, I'd say Unique.
 
mpjustin said:
just to clarify.
hornadys book says their 38 spiecal load is 4.0gr - 5.4gr +P
and hodgens load data for 357mag load is 7.2gr - 8.0gr
all this data is for TIGHT GROUP powder
both with the hornady 110gr bullet XTP HP
So would it be OK to load the 357mag cases with 5.5gr - 7.0gr (this is inbetween the 38max load and below the 357mag min load.)
Is there any harm going below the minimum 357load?

thanks again,
Justin
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You're not taking case capacity into consideration. The .38spl loads are listed for .38spl cases, and the .357mag for .357mag cases, which are longer. According to your data, using 5.5gr in a .357mag case would likely result in softer loads than the .38spl loads listed (larger case capacity = less pressure).

No, there's no harm going below the minimum .357 load (with this particular powder), but I wouldn't go as low as 5.5gr.
 
Also remember if you load .38 hotter than regualr or +p to label the boxes as such so they do not end up in a jframe or other small. 38 revolver that cannot take the higher pressures. They will be fine in your gp100 but only fire very hot loads in .38 cases in a .357 revolver.
 
There are a host of reasons to use only 357 Mag brass in a 357 revolver. Sure, in a pinch you can also use 38 Special and 38 Spec +P ammo, but if you're handloading, use just 357 Mag brass. You could separate loads by brass and nickel case, and/or a ring of red marker in the extractor groove. Of course using only 357 Mag brass, there's obviously no way a 357 Mag load can then sneak into a 38 Spec revolver, regardless of how it's marked.

As for loads, there are nearly as many published 357 loads as there are for 30/06. If you want to go below published min loads for 357, then use published 38 Spec +P loads, and because of the larger case size, you'll end up with effectively 38 Spec loads. In between, voila, you have 38 Spec +P loads in a 357 Mag case.
 
With regards to revolvers, one has to remember there can be a big difference between two, seemingly the same guns, due to the loss of pressure at the cylinder gap. Bear this in mind when reviewing the following velocities.
Firstly, I would like to point out that many of you make too much distinction between 38 special cases and 357 cases, when shot in a 357. Strange as it seems, I found the exact same load, loaded into each of the two cases, to give higher velocity in the 357 case!
Here is an example. 38 brass, bullet number 358429, weighing about 168 grains, 13 grains of 2400, velocity 1247, es28.
Same load, everything, except 357 brass, velocity 1335, es59.
This was shot in a Model 27 S&W, six inch barrel. This bullet, 358429, is too long for the 27 (as it is for the Colt Cobra) to be loaded and crimped in the proper crimping groove in a 357 case. Therefore, when fired in the 27 with with 357 brass, it had to be seated deeper and crimped on the shoulder.
This would set the bullet deeper in the case, but would be nearly identical distance to the primer, as it would be in a 38 case and crimped in the proper groove.
I have several other examples, same load, different cases and the highest velocity is always with the 357 brass, as compared to the 38 special brass.
If there is a lesson here, it is that one shouldn't assume things, like saying the load will be "hotter" in a 38 case, as compared to a 357.
Regarding loading books, the best, by far, I have ever seen for handguns, is the Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook. It gives figures that are extremely accurate. Regarding H110 with the 358429 bullet, they show a maximum of 15.7 grains and a suggested starting load, which they regard as potentially the most accurate, of 11.8 grains! I went down to 10 grains of H110, but my notes say there was some unburned powder, but the notes also state it was an accurate load. So much for what we read about not loading H110 lighter than maximum, or all sorts of weird things will happen, like your gun blowing up and putting the cat into orbit.
With this Lyman book one definitely wants to work up to their max. I have a notation that 14.5 of H110 is too heavy for the Model 27, while they show a max of 15.7. From memory, I think the Ruger Security Six, handled their full load of 15.7 grains.
anyway, just some of my Sunday afternoon mussings.
 
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