Any dangers in starting with listed max loads?

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So I've been thinking this roll-your-own stuff... Why do most manuals list a "maximum load", then a starting load (usually ten percent less)? Has anyone ever lost accuracy by going higher then a starting load? Is there any real danger of loading a max load off the bat?


Inquiring mind would like to know. :D
 
Is there any real danger of doing meth before you try some caffeine?

You start low to build up the load so you don't kill yourself by having your receiver blow up in your face. Also why waste powder if you don't have to? Plus there is no fun in just jumping to a load without finding your perfect one.
 
If you read most of the manuals they will explain why it is often dangerous to start at maximum loads. The publisher of the manual does not have any control over the end user - you - and your components.
Each lot of powder can be slightly different. Each lot of brass, even from the same manufacturer, can be slightly different. You might choose a bullet that is different from that listed in the manual, and seat it out further, or deeper. And they have no knowledge of the state of your rifle. That doesn't count in potential errors in you weighing gear (your powder scale), or your acceptance of 'close enough' when weighing. Starting at the minimum allows for you to determine how your reloads are acting. If you choose to start at maximum, please let everyone else on the firing line know before you shoot.
 
I've noticed some maximum loads seem... Conservative, in certain manuals, hence my asking. I was just wondering, since I planned on loading a whole batch of trios, each increasing by half a grain, up to maximum load. I don't have time to go back and forth between my gravel pit and loading bench (about a half hour drive :redface:).


(Nosler 168gr. Custom Comp HPBT over Varget in .308Win, if anyone can provide input).
 
The idea here is to make 2-5 rounds and go up .5 grains each time until you find out what's the most accurate cartridge. Starting at the max load you could have case head separation, and then you're at the range with like 49 rounds that you don't want to fire. More powder doesn't always mean more accuracy, you just have to play around until you find a load you like, then you stick with it and act like you're some kind of gun wizard... without the stupid hat or beard, not that there's anything wrong with a wizard beard, ladies?
 
I have my Tiptron ballcap, does that count as a wizard's hat? :yingyang:


In any case, progressively loading was the idea, due to how long it can take to get back to my shooting spot. Having said that, all the max loads I've read all fall within SAAMI specs.


Now on to other questions:

I got the Lee Breech Lock Challenger kit, it comes with both a "safety Measure" scale, and a nifty "Perfect Powder Measure". How often should I be checking loads? Every round?
 
When loading for accuracy I measure every round, twice. I want them PERFECT..... Sometimes I can be a little OCD about it. I don't compete or anything I just figgure that if I am going to do this I have to do it well.

A ladder test is the way to go IMHO, when I am testing a new load I will start about 1/2 of a grain under the min load and work my way up (just like you suggested you were goin to do) and I will also go 1/2 grain abouve max load as well. Some times I don't shoot that "trio" that is over max, and a time or two I have even stopped short of max beacuse I was showing signs of pressure.

For pistol rounds.... not so much. I am anal as hell when developing the load but when I actually go into "production" with my progerssive press I only check every 10th round or so to verify the setting havn't gone wacky.

Cheers!
 
I loaded for a long time & came to the conclusion max loads were generally pretty conservative. Then came a time a grabbed a book a loaded a few rounds at max to try with some diff powder. 1st shot locked the bolt :eek: Double & triple checked my loads & book & yes they were just a max load in one loading manual. Take nothing for granted! I understand your delema having a distance to travel to a shooting spot, so this is what I'd do. Load the rounds you want to try at max but also load one at starting & one more at 1 gn intervals till you reach your max loads. When you start shooting, 1st go thru these loads carefully watching for signs of presure. Most times you will be good to go but it's a safe quick check that'll get you where you want to go.
 
I got the Lee Breech Lock Challenger kit, it comes with both a "safety Measure" scale, and a nifty "Perfect Powder Measure". How often should I be checking loads? Every round?

I weigh every charge, and I don't care how loong it takes. You can get some granules hanging up in the tube of your powder measure, resulting in a low charge, then a high charge in the next one...

If you want to take some stuff to the range, mount a single press on a board that can be clamped to your shooting bench. If you have your brass prepped and primed, all you have to do is weigh the charge, and seat the bullet.
 
Any dangers in starting with listed max loads?

only those previously mentioned.

you could blow up your gun, kill or injure yourself, and, most important, you could miss out on the load that is perfect for you and your gun!

of course if you have a new gun, in good shape you probably could start working up a load from slightly under the listed max. load and label several rounds, increasing the load as you go, and check for signs of pressure.
 
one of the lyman books, ( i forget which edition) has, in the referance section, a bunch of charts where everything is the same, but they've subsituted ONE ingredient - these are spike charts, done over 10 rounds- ie changed primer for magnum and EVERYTHING ELSE IS THE SAME- this was done over 10 rounds and they still show certain "spilkes " where the pressure wanders over into the maximum pressure allowed in the gun- what they say is good enough for me
 
I have my Tiptron ballcap, does that count as a wizard's hat? :yingyang:


In any case, progressively loading was the idea, due to how long it can take to get back to my shooting spot. Having said that, all the max loads I've read all fall within SAAMI specs.


Now on to other questions:

I got the Lee Breech Lock Challenger kit, it comes with both a "safety Measure" scale, and a nifty "Perfect Powder Measure". How often should I be checking loads? Every round?

What are you loading?
Rifle ? For plinking or accuracy?
Pistol? For plinking or competition?
I shoot IPSC and IDPA so I need reasonable consistancy but also need to load a lot!
I find the Perfect powder Measure to be accurate enough with the powders I use for pistol that I stopped weighing every 10 rounds and now weigh before I start a session to verify it is still at the set charge. I also Mike 1 in 10 and any that feel off when seating.
Usually load 100-150 rounds in my single stage press per session. Weighing every 10 slows me down enough. Weighing every 1 would be crazy slow.

When I load for rifle, I weigh each one and Mike each one too.
 
I have to disagree with those who say Yes to your question: "Any dangers in starting with listed max loads? " It's bassakwards for load development, but if you want to start at a published max load and work down, then it's every bit as safe as starting lower and working up to the max. Published max loads already take into account differences in case volumes and powder lots as well as even temperature. You do need to pay attention to seating depth and primer type.

The Doomsday Crowd are essentially saying that published max loads are dangerous. We already have guys who take the lowest max load they find in 10 loading manuals and reduce it by 10% to produce their own "safe" max, and now after reading this, they'll have to reduce it further? Published max loads are safe and then some. In fact it's more dangerous to work in the zone just below published starting loads than it is just above published max (not that I'd recommend either).

If you're prone to using innacurate scales, being careless with seating depth and anything else mentionned above then you should either go back to school or quit reloading.
 
Andy while most published max loads are safe (and perhaps even conservative), and it's probably good to realize that, it's something that will come back to bite a person if they count on it being so. Some manuals (particularly older ones) have truly max loads, sometime there are misprints, some wildcat data is stupendously hot, etc.

I've only had two cases of serious overpressure myself.

In one, I used less-than max published loads from a Lyman manual, for .45 ACP, 200 LSWC, and W231 powder. It turned out to be quite a hot load, perhaps even too hot. A combination of factors ended up (a weak, older piece of military brass, slightly too deeply seated bullet, some lead and lube fouling in the barrel, etc) ended up with the case head failing, and the magazine of my Glock blowing out in my hands.

In another, I used a mid-range load of IMR-4831 and 140 grain Sierra gameking in a 6.5x55 M96. Quite a bit of gas puffed back at me, but I wasn't hurt. It locked the bolt up so tightly, that I ended up cracking the bolt body as I hammered it open. The primer fell out, the primer pocket was probably a full tenth of an inch larger in diameter than when I started. This ammo safely fired in another rifle (M70 6.5x55), but it was clearly *WAY* over max in my rifle. Probably a number of factors here, among them the 6.5mm bullets tend to have very long shanks, which makes their engraving force more sensitive to bore and throat diameters.

Under most circumstances one can safely load up to max published loads, and with care and knowledge, sometimes prudently exceed them too. The thing is though, once you pull the trigger you set in motion a chain of events that is going to unfold over the next 1 millisecond, and if things go wrong, there is nothing you can do to stop it or back up. If it is an overpressure load that might damage the rifle, or even worse damage the shooter, it's going to happen. Since it's irreversible once you've pulled the trigger, we have to do all our thinking and contingency planning *before* we pull the trigger.

If you have a good powder measure, particularly one with a repeatably readable scale, you can go to the range with a bunch of primed cases, your powder measure, a press and a seating die, and make your ammo one round at a time. Load one round at the start load, fire it (even better, over a chrono), then decide where to go next. In less than an hour, you can be zeroed in on what's max, what's prudent, and what looks to be promising.
 
Is it ok to jump into the deep end of the pool before you know how to swim?
every gun is different a max load in my gun may be different than in yours. Work up slowly to be sure.
 
Andy, you made a good post. My only fault with it is I don't think there is the slightest danger in loading light loads of powder.
A while back on a similar thread, I posted copies of loading charts, from years back, of three different loading companies. Everyone was the same. They showed calibre (cartridge,) bullet weight, kind of powder and powder charge.
That is, one powder charge, maximum. No starting load, but two of the three said you may want to start lower.
And Andy, as you pointed out, there will not be a single listed load in any manual that will not be within the SAAMI limits, unless it is a misprint.
Some rifles handle more pressure, or at least create more pressure with a given load, than do others. I have had rifles that showed possibly excess pressure with a listed load, but that is a far cry from "blowing up the rifle."
Also, once I determine that a rifle of mine handles given loads, listed as maximum, with no trouble, or, in short, has no pressure problems, then I know it will handle any load shown as maximum, without problems, so I never work up another load in it. These people who are so scared of "Blowing up their guns," how can they dare to shoot a factory load in their rifle? Most factory loads are about the same, or maybe higher pressure, than the loads in a loading manual shown as maximum.
One more thing. Every ballistic chart and every loading book shows a 30-06 as giving a 180 grain bullet a speed of 2700 feet a second. I have tested maximum loads from loading books and found the average loading book velocity for their max load, is about 2500 to 2560 fps. In order to get the 2700 fps, I had to go well over what the books said were max.
The only exception, I have found, is in the old Norma loading books. They were dead on, when velocity was measured.
 
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