Horrible hunting video.

[7.62mm]

No follow-up shot. It was not a quick and clean kill. Bear dragging itself on the ground is a clean kill ??????? C'mon now.

Well, see now that is where the subjectivity on the matter comes in! What if the shot had of just grazed the lung, and the bear ran off into the woods........how long do you "ThinK" it would have taken to die? My guess is not much longer......maybe a minute or two.......(is that to long?) I have no doubt, that a video such as this posted on the internet, will do us nothing but harm.......but I will say this......many an animal has suffered a lot more than that bear did, and with a lot less ethics on the part of the hunter. To my mind, the guy that said it is done, knew what he was talking about....and the bear expired within 20 seconds of him saying that statement......we won't go into the fact that they were muzzle loader hunting, and didn't have an opportunity to take a quick (what is quick with a modern muzzleloader, maybe a minute, for the average hunter).

None the less, the bear expired rapidly.....more than I can say for some of the game animals that I have witnessed being shot.......even myself bow hunting, I have had a deer go much more than a couple of minutes before it laid down and died.......am I now some kind of monster?

 

[sigtactical]

as the steam is shutting off, i just want to thank you polar man.

that vid reminded me that all mens are not equal even with a gun in hands.. the samuel colt moto doesn't apply in this case.

 

[bronco_mudder]

its not the same by the time you find the deer that ran off its probobly dead but if ou are in a position to end the animals suffering and dont do it you are a real piece of sh!t.

The question I commented on was of a clean kill, without question the individual was a piece of crap for not following up. So which one is the clean kill? A lung shot deer running off and dieing out of sight, or the CNS, with likely lung shot bear dieing in plain view of the hunter?

 

[7.62mm]

There is obviously a "GREAT" many people on CGN that have not witnessed death "UP CLOSE and PERSONAL".......they much prefer to not have to deal with what happens when the body dies.....of a game animal or a human.......it is NOT pretty.....and it is ALWAYS violent......whether you actually witness it or not.

 

[H Wally]

I'm not saying that I agree with the video, but in regards to your question....is a lung shot deer running 150 yards into the bush, falling down, thrashing around on the ground for a short period not a clean kill?

The question is, can you shorten its suffering? If the deer is on the run in the brush, probably not. If it's flailing around in the same spot it was shot for a good minute and a half within 15 yards of you, then take the second shot and end it.

 

[bearkilr]

Well, see now that is where the subjectivity on the matter comes in! What if the shot had of just grazed the lung, and the bear ran off into the woods........how long do you "ThinK" it would have taken to die? My guess is not much longer......maybe a minute or two.......(is that to long?) I have no doubt, that a video such as this posted on the internet, will do us nothing but harm.......but I will say this......many an animal has suffered a lot more than that bear did, and with a lot less ethics on the part of the hunter. To my mind, the guy that said it is done, knew what he was talking about....and the bear expired within 20 seconds of him saying that statement......we won't go into the fact that they were muzzle loader hunting, and didn't have an opportunity to take a quick (what is quick with a modern muzzleloader, maybe a minute, for the average hunter).

None the less, the bear expired rapidly.....more than I can say for some of the game animals that I have witnessed being shot.......even myself bow hunting, I have had a deer go much more than a couple of minutes before it laid down and died.......am I now some kind of monster?

The difference is that he could have and should have ended it faster. The opportunity was there. An animal running off gutshot/wounded is an irrelevant point.

 

[7.62mm]

The question is, can you shorten its suffering? If the deer is on the run in the brush, probably not. If it's flailing around in the same spot it was shot for a good minute and a half within 15 yards of you, then take the second shot and end it.

So what is the acceptable standard? 15 seconds.....1 second......as fast as the average person can reload......which is exactly what? What in your mind would have been acceptable?

The bear died in a short period of time.......full stop.....it was a legal hunt.......full stop.

Should this video have been posted on the internet? I am not sure....I don't think some people have a full grasp of reality when it comes to life and death, and humans feeding themselves, I certainly wouldn't have posted it personally, but I see nothing wrong in the ethics or morality in what the hunt comprised of......if it was a legal hunt, I am all good with it.

 

[bearkilr]

So what is the acceptable standard? 15 seconds.....1 second......as fast as the average person can reload......which is exactly what? What in your mind would have been acceptable?

The bear died in a short period of time.......full stop.....it was a legal hunt.......full stop.

Should this video have been posted on the internet? I am not sure....I don't think some people have a full grasp of reality when it comes to life and death, and humans feeding themselves, I certainly wouldn't have posted it personally, but I see nothing wrong in the ethics or morality in what the hunt comprised of......if it was a legal hunt, I am all good with it.

The acceptable standard as an ethical hunter is to dispatch the animal as quickly and humanely as possible. If it requires cutting its throat with a knife because you're out of ammo, so be it. End of story.

 

[Weapontech]

The question is, can you shorten its suffering? If the deer is on the run in the brush, probably not. If it's flailing around in the same spot it was shot for a good minute and a half within 15 yards of you, then take the second shot and end it.

Exactly......

As a hunter, you have a commitment to see that an animal doesn't suffer needlessly - especially if you happen to be the person who caused it to begin with. As a hunter for many years, I feel that allowing an animal to suffer in this way (when there is a way to end it quickly), is completely unethical.

 

[7.62mm]

I personally think, this whole issue ties in well with the whole East/West divide that we see on this forum.

Western hunters "Tend" to take longer range shots, ie 250+, and never witness what really happens when a game animal is shot through the heart and lungs. They always proclaim that the animal died in it's tracks, or only went 60 yards, they never witness the animal kicking and writhing on the ground, they always think it just dropped.........sorry to disappoint, but any body with a spinal cord has a reaction to death......it writhes and churns and claws at the ground, you just aren't there to witness it.

On the other hand, we have the Eastern hunters......who tend to shoot the game relatively close....and are witnesses to what the game animals body does in its death throws......I am not making judgment.....but any animal shot, humans included, will go through what that bear did in the video, whether you are witness to it or not.

 

[sealhunter]

The acceptable standard as an ethical hunter is to dispatch the animal as quickly and humanely as possible. If it requires cutting its throat with a knife because you're out of ammo, so be it. End of story.

should we limit the weapons we use as well,..for example,.. arrows can take a while to kill an animal,..as quickly and humanely as possible, well I think that would mean a rifle..

what about snares? I'd think they must be really unethical..

???

 

[7.62mm]

Exactly......

As a hunter, you have a commitment to see that an animal doesn't suffer needlessly - especially if you happen to be the person who caused it to begin with. As a hunter for many years, I feel that allowing an animal to suffer in this way (when there is a way to end it quickly), is completely unethical.

So which is it, first the heart lung shot.....followed up by the Head shot


But the Head shot is such an unethical thing to do......cause you know, you could shoot off its jaw instead off getting a clean kill......or you could go for the CNS shot.......long standing theory has it that the ETHICAL HUNTER should go for the heart /lug shot, which BTW the hunter in the video went for, (unexpectadely they got the CNS and Lung shot).......which is it to be........?

 

[interlakegrl]

I believe it would have been more humane if he would have even tried to reload his gun. Maybe he would have never taken the second shot. Maybe the bear would have died before he finished reloading. Maybe he could have said something more reassuring to his daughter. And yes death is cruel and graphic but when it's that graphic maybe you should keep the journey to your self and just show everyone the destination. Anti hunters use videos like that to drive their inhumane unethical views home. And if so many avid hunters think that this video is too graphic than of course anti hunters can twist and manipulate this situation even worse. He could have at least tried and he should have kept this video to himself.

 

[JIP911]

The acceptable standard as an ethical hunter is to dispatch the animal as quickly and humanely as possible. If it requires cutting its throat with a knife because you're out of ammo, so be it. End of story.

Could not have said it better myself... They had more than enough oppertunity to seal the deal imho...

 

[bearkilr]

I personally think, this whole issue ties in well with the whole East/West divide that we see on this forum.

Western hunters "Tend" to take longer range shots, ie 250+, and never witness what really happens when a game animal is shot through the heart and lungs. They always proclaim that the animal died in it's tracks, or only went 60 yards, they never witness the animal kicking and writhing on the ground, they always think it just dropped.........sorry to disappoint, but any body with a spinal cord has a reaction to death......it writhes and churns and claws at the ground, you just aren't there to witness it.

On the other hand, we have the Eastern hunters......who tend to shoot the game relatively close....and are witnesses to what the game animals body does in its death throws......I am not making judgment.....but any animal shot, humans included, will go through what that bear did in the video, whether you are witness to it or not.

I've seen dozens of bears get shot over the years, 99% over bait, most within 70 yards. I can pretty much tell where the bear is hit by the reaction.
If a follow up shot presents itself, you take it. Most times it doesn't.This applies to all animals no matter the range. My opinion anyhow.

 

[Weapontech]

So which is it, first the heart lung shot.....followed up by the Head shot. But the Head shot is such .........

Failure through over-analysis.......

For this example, and others like it - Simply; a second shot to render the animal unconscious, (head shot, lungs/heart, wherever) so that it feels no pain.

 

[7.62mm]

I've seen dozens of bears get shot over the years, 99% over bait, most within 70 yards. I can pretty much tell where the bear is hit by the reaction.
If a follow up shot presents itself, you take it. Most times it doesn't.This applies to all animals no matter the range. My opinion anyhow.

So the question is.......over the course of the video.....they had one muzzle loading rifle.......does it seem like the bear suffered overly much?.....I am sure you have seen worse......I know I have personally witnessed worse, and have had to end it, for the sake of my own sanity.......that bear died quickly.....doubtless it wasn't painless.......but I have personally witnesed deer Bawl a lot more loudly than that, and have been more mortally wounded.

 

[jimmyjazz]

I personally think, this whole issue ties in well with the whole East/West divide that we see on this forum.

Western hunters "Tend" to take longer range shots, ie 250+, and never witness what really happens when a game animal is shot through the heart and lungs. They always proclaim that the animal died in it's tracks, or only went 60 yards, they never witness the animal kicking and writhing on the ground, they always think it just dropped.........sorry to disappoint, but any body with a spinal cord has a reaction to death......it writhes and churns and claws at the ground, you just aren't there to witness it.

On the other hand, we have the Eastern hunters......who tend to shoot the game relatively close....and are witnesses to what the game animals body does in its death throws......I am not making judgment.....but any animal shot, humans included, will go through what that bear did in the video, whether you are witness to it or not.

I disagree, I'm in the East and would still never allow an animal to suffer like that without making an attempt to put it out of its misery.... at least try.

 

[bearkilr]

So the question is.......over the course of the video.....they had one muzzle loading rifle.......does it seem like the bear suffered overly much?.....I am sure you have seen worse......I know I have personally witnessed worse, and have had to end it, for the sake of my own sanity.......that bear died quickly.....doubtless it wasn't painless.......but I have personally witnesed deer Bawl a lot more loudly than that, and have been more mortally wounded.

I would have liked to hear the dad say "shoot again" or at least attempting to reload, instead of giggling. I have seen worse and have ended it, but that was my point....to end it.
Bears bawling will make most peoples' skin crawl, still does to me. Sad thing is it's a good sign......death is imminent.

 

[7.62mm]

Failure through over-analysis.......

For this example, and others like it - Simply; a second shot to render the animal unconscious, (head shot, lungs/heart, wherever) so that it feels no pain.

So you think that putting another round into the body or head of the bear would somehow sooth your soul?????

The bear was dead........it's body and mind just didn't know it yet........somehow by making its CNS system not function, you think you are more humane than any given hunter out there that just wants to feed him/herself?

The shot was good, the shooter got the spine and the lungs...the bear expired within say a minute 30 seconds..........the only gripe I have.......not really a gripe, cause not sure if I wouldn't do it myself......is the laugh, right after the shot.......otherwise a good legal and ethical kill, as far as I am concerned.