Win 1886 Question

Bittermansbro

Bittermansbro

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I have finally located and purchased an 1886 rifle in 45-70 made in 1893. It was originally a case hardened rifle, all worn away and the stock has seen better days.

The bore looks pretty rough, but I am hoping it will clean up when I get it home.

I know that the '86 has the record for strongest action of the levers, however what is ok and not ok to shoot in the old girl?
 
First of all, congratulations on now owning a classic old Winchester 1886. I don't care how rough that bore is, I've never seen a bore that I couldn't get to shoot decent, and I've seen one or two sewer pipes. You've got a wide range of loads available to you. Do you already have IMR 4198? or 5744? IMR 4198 is my favourite powder for the .45-70. For original '86 .45-70's, my favourite load is 30 grains of IMR 4198 under a cast 405 grain bullet with gas check.
 
Thanks Win, that's encouraging. The need to have an '86 overrode the condition of the barrel.

Anyhow, as for powders, I tend to use H4198 for powder.

So that load of 30 gr under a 405gc works well on the old sewer pipes?
 
30 grains of H4198 should work well with a GC 405 grain bullet. That should give you roughly 1,350 fps depending upon things. Depending upon your results, there are other options to get it to shoot accurately, but try that first. In fact, you may want to try two different loads. Start with a light load of 27 grains of H4198 and see how that one is. Then try the 30 grain load and see how it compares. Keep us posted. If your groups are heinous, let us know because there are loads for heinous bores that I've used, including one that is pretty much fail safe, but they include toilet paper filler or cream of wheat filler, which is a bit more complicated to load, so try your H4198 loads with a GC bullet first.
 
If they are cast bullets, no problem. In fact, many fellows think that .002 over groove diameter is perfect. If they are hardcast or jacketed, you may want to use .458.
 
Sorry fro the noob questions, but I don't cast my own bullets, so I am pretty much a neophyte at casting.

I use Bullet Barn bullets for reloading 45-70, how do you tell if they are hard cast or not?
 
It would be worth giving Bullet Barn a call or an email, because bullet hardness is an important thing. Take a look at the chart here http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm that shows 'Common Bullet Alloy Hardness'. I use pure wheel weights for a BHN (Brunel Hardness Number) of around 12. In my opinion, anything over BHN 18 is a hard cast bullet. Most commercial casting companies use a hard alloy because it makes casting faster and easier (fills the mould easier), so I would expect Bullet Barn bullets to be pretty hard, but it is best to check with them. If you are using moderate loads, then even a hard cast bullet .002 oversize should still be fine. It is the higher pressure loads near max that you need to start worrying about these details.
 
Thanks 38-55, on the BB website, they say their bullets are Brinell Hardness Level 25.

I don't plan on shooting heavy loads, just enough to get me some good accuracy for cowboy long range silhouette.
 
That is hard cast, alright. If you are shooting light to medium loads, it will be fine to use .459 in a .457 groove diameter bore.
 
Congrats on the 86, they're quite a machine.
It's good you don't want to load hot as 86's were colour case hardened until 1908 and the colour case guns aren't as strong as the blued models, at least that what I've heard.
 
John Spartan said:
I agree on this: I've been shooting Bullet Barn 405 grain hard cast bullet handloads in my 45-70s at 1300-1600 fps with no problems.
Click to expand...

What kind of powder are you using John?

Mike Webb said:
Congrats on the 86, they're quite a machine.
It's good you don't want to load hot as 86's were colour case hardened until 1908 and the colour case guns aren't as strong as the blued models, at least that what I've heard.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike, that info is news to me in regards to the blued vs colour case. the 86 is a pretty strong action all told, I guess it would have to be pretty hot to cause probs?
 
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