Where to buy Nitric Acid (for rust blueing bluing blue)

###XX said:
The formula is as follows:
- 500mL ACS-grade HCL
- 500mL ACS-grade HNO3
- 15L DISTILLED water (seriously, distilled...very critical)
- Iron filings

This will bring the entire aqueous solution to a volume of 16L. Dissolve pure iron in the solution until the solution is saturated and cannot absorb any more. Be careful as it will create heat and fumes, namely toxic Nitrogen Dioxide gas.
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Just like to check with you regarding the amount of distilled water. I converted the "Neider's" formula of

2.5 Ounces Nitric Acid
2.0 Ounces Hydrochloric
1 ounces of wire nails
30 ounces water

Into:

75 ml Nitric
60 ml Hydrochloric
30 g Iron (possibly more -until saturated)
890 ml distilled water

500 ml (in bottle) divided by 75 ml Nitric Acid (from recipe) x 890 ml water (from recipe) = 5.9 litres of solution. If you add the Hydrochloric acid you get a total of 6.3 litres of solution.

I also dissolved my Iron fillings in the acid mixture before I added it to the distilled water.

Did I get it wrong? I have done a test on a small piece of steel and it seem to work very well.
 
JOHN303 said:
the idea being to "build up" a fine coat of chlorine rust, a higher the concentration of HCL will produce a more "coarse" rust. Rust bluing in effect etches into the metal and gives a more durable finish. Once I'm happy with the rusting etc. I immerse the item into boiling water to change the "rust" form brown to black. It's the chlorine part of the bluing solution / etchant that is required for this colour change to happen, (the metal rust is chlorine based not oxygen based as in normal rusted metal).
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Couple issues with this.

Iron (steel is iron and carbon) reacted with chlorine would make ferric chloride, which is yellow.

RED RUST is iron oxide. BLACK rust is also iron oxide. Red rust is Fe2O3 while black is Fe3O4. It's a different compound, because iron can come in different ionizations, e2+ or e3+

The heat and oxygen deprivation convert the fe2o3 to fe3o4
 
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Well there you go, I can take rusted metal (iron), boil it and voila the rust will turn black, I must try it now - maybe I'll learn something, it's never to late. John303.
 
John303 said:
Well there you go, I can take rusted metal (iron), boil it and voila the rust will turn black, I must try it now - maybe I'll learn something, it's never to late. John303.
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The oldest type of rust bluing was to polish the metal, degrease completely, then put it in a humidity cabinet. When there was a light layer of red rust, steam or boil until the rust turned black then card with fine steel wool. repeat until you have the blue you want. This can take three weeks or more with carding every day. Done it once it leaves a beautiful durable steel blue. BTW: you can blue in fingerprints very easily with this method. Get finger prints in the rust and you card if off before steaming and degrease.
Done it once on a black power pistol. There are other methods that are faster.
 
I didn't check "buckbrush's web site. So I used 50% peroxide 50% vingar and about a 1/4 total liquid vol in salt. It works. used an rusty buttplate and it cut through the rust and "blued" the metal better than bottle gunbluing did. I know from using brining salt that you keep adding salt until it won't desolve and then it is set in water. So, vingar is the same. I didn't have enough salt to do this....used small plastic cup....and added buttplate. A 1/3 would work better. After I just rinsed in water like the normal bluing process.
 
Remember the old adage. 'Do what you outta, add your acid to the water" Not the other way around. Acid+water=heat. Adding water to strong acid can cause enough heat to boil some water as the acid hits it and splash the acid about. Not good. Also, the danger with breathing in acidic fumes is that the gas mix with the water vapor in your lungs and the acid burns your lungs out. For example, breathing H2S gas makes sulfuric acid in your lungs.
Plumbers use strong Muriatic (hydrochloric) acid for cleaning some pipes out.
 
Pie1,
Not trying to nitpick here but it is entirely possible for H2SO4 ( Sulfuric Acid ) to form in your lungs from inhaled vapors. In fact it is a very real danger in some Underground mines. What happens is in high sulfide ore bodies blasting creates dust when the blast sequence first starts. The heat from subsequent shots ignites the dust creating an extemely hot secondary explosion that creates Sulfur Dioxide. The humidity, being extremely high in an Underground mine, mixes with this and creates Sulfuric Acid. When entering blast areas in these types of mines workers have to be careful ALL the gases are gone. IF you happen to inhale some of this gas the same reaction takes place in your lungs causing severe edema and possibley death. There have been plenty of cases where the scarring in the lungs have disabled miners on a permenent basis.
The gas that reacts with the hemoglobin in your blood is Carbon Monoxide. In fact your blood like the CO2 molecule 300 times more than O2. That's why Co2 is so deadly even in small concentrations.

Like I said I'm not trying to nitpick but I've worked in the Underground mining industry for over 30 years and hold Mine Rescue cerfifications in several provinces.
 
Been boiling that rusty screw-driver for some hrs. now to no avail, it just won't turn black. Must be missing something - the chlorine part of the process I suspect. There is lenghty discussion & a lot of info. on the process (etching, rust bluing etc,) on Doublegunshop under FAQ - see Damascus Etching discussion. I don't know how to link to the site directly, perhaps someone will assist. FWIW --- John303.
 
pie1 said:
It [H2S] binds to hemoglobin in the blood, competing with binding by oxygen. It does not make sulfuric acid.
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WRONG. Carbon Monoxide (CO) binds to hemoglobin 200 times better than oxygen, thereby causing hypoxia.

Symptoms include dizziness, confusion, headache, nausea, vomiting, blurred vision, slurred speech, cyanosis (turning blue), unresponsiveness, and death.

H2S does bind to iron, which is required to bind oxygen to hemoglobin, but not before pulmonary edema sets in and your lungs start disintegrating, and you drown in your own blood and fluids.

Curt said:
For example, breathing H2S gas makes sulfuric acid in your lungs.
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RIGHT! H2S does indeed dissolve into the water in your lungs, eyes, mouth, nose, and any other mucous membrane, creating Sulphuric Acid.

Symptoms include coughing, bleeding, formation of fluid in the lungs, lung collapse.
 
kac said:
The gas that reacts with the hemoglobin in your blood is Carbon Monoxide. In fact your blood like the CO2 molecule 300 times more than O2. That's why Co2 is so deadly even in small concentrations.
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Carbon Monoxide is correct, and the formula for that gas is CO. It binds to the hemoglobin instead of Oxygen, and causes hypoxia.

Carbon Dioxide is CO2, and it does not bond with hemoglobin ("blood"). It does, however physically displace oxygen in a confined space, so you could fill a room with it and have no available oxygen, again resulting in hypoxia.

Generally speaking, CO is very dangerous, and CO2 is not dangerous. CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) forms the bubbles in your beer and Pepsi. Or coke if you're a weirdo ;)
 
While I admit I am wrong for saying it binds with hemoglobin( I did confuse it with CO), it binds to a mitochondrial enzyme.

"The toxicity of hydrogen sulfide is a result of its reaction with metalloenzymes. In the mitochondria, cytochrome oxidase, the final enzyme in the respiratory chain, is inhibited by hydrogen sulfide; this disrupts the electron transport chain and impairs oxidative metabolism. Nervous and cardiac tissues, which have the highest oxygen demand, are especially sensitive to the disruption of oxidative metabolism. In the central nervous system, this effect may result in death from respiratory arrest."
http://www.inchem.org/documents/cicads/cicads/cicad53.htm
and
http://books.google.ca/books?id=ooH...ism of H2S, hydrogen sulfide toxicity&f=false

But this may not be the whole story as indicated here:
http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstract.bme/17145698/Molecular_mechanisms_of_hydrogen_sulfide_toxicity
 
Petrocraft in Calgary carries the 10% Nitric acid. I found that diluting down the Nitric acid by another 10:1 (1%) and the 10% HCL by 10:1 (1%) before mixing with the iron (I used lab sourced iron filings, can't remember where I got them but I found them on Google in about two minutes) gives good results. Then use a wooden clothes peg to hold a cotton ball dipped in the solution. Coat the parts liberally and place in a closed container (a cardboard box would work as the chemicals are now very weak ) with a shallow pan of hot water for moisture. Let them sit for several hours until a nice even coat of rust appears, then boil them, card with steel wool and repeat the process until you're happy. May take 5+ cycles.

I WOULD NOT use the fuming method with high strength acids. I tried it and it is WAAAY to stinky and possibly dangerous.

Like I said, dilute the acid mix, apply directly, let rust form, boil, card and repeat = very nice finish. And safe too. And keep it clean, clean, clean. Spray with a good degreaser in between acid washes.
 
NRCAN

http://www.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/media/newcom/2008/200817a-eng.php

List of the 9 restricted chemicals:

* ammonium nitrate (in solid form at a concentration of 28 to 34 percent nitrogen);
* nitric acid (concentrations greater than 68 percent);
* nitromethane;
* hydrogen peroxide (concentrations greater than 30 percent);
* potassium nitrate;
* sodium nitrate;
* potassium chlorate;
* sodium chlorate; and
* potassium perchlorate.
 
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