stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Certainly you mean FORTUNATELY?
Idpa q&a
- Thread starter Northern Pirate
- Start date
Certainly you mean FORTUNATELY?
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Once again..........prove me wrong...
Post the part of the law that indicates that you are right and I will agree with you..
Of course you say you do not care because YOU KNOW YOU CANNOT PROVE ME WRONG.
The law is plain as day if you care to read and understand it.
What part of this do you not seem to get? It is quite clear and evidence PROVING my (an others) perspectives has been given and posted.
Or if you have any 10 round .40 magazines will you be turning them and yourself in forth with.
Of course I would really be interested in knowing just what charge you think you would be nailed with........
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
I just spoke to a PAL Instructor, and explained to him opinions in this thread. His reply was that "just because a magazine of a different caliber can hold more rounds of another caliber, that does make the magazine illegal but it also does not make it legal to load it with more then 10 rounds. The law is simple and that is what we teach, all handguns magazines are restricted to 10 rounds maximum loaded, whether more can go in or not. It is capacity specific not caliber specific and just because a 10 round .40 cal mag will hold 13 rounds of 9mm, that does not make it legal to do. If this was ok, do you not think we would teach it that way?"
I guess we all have our opinions and ways of reading the law, but personally I would not want to get caught doing this and then go bankrupt trying to prove I am right while my tax money is paying for the pitbull crown attorney that works for the CFO who is trying to bury me and getting paid for it.
I guess we all have our opinions and ways of reading the law, but personally I would not want to get caught doing this and then go bankrupt trying to prove I am right while my tax money is paying for the pitbull crown attorney that works for the CFO who is trying to bury me and getting paid for it.
It is exactly the same, and I have a letter from the RCMP forensics people to that effect. I was asking about a P7M10 mag loaded with 9mm, but the letter clears the way for any other .40 / 9mm combination.
I've shot 13 rounds of 9mm from my P7M10 .40S&W mags on more than one occasion.
This is the only law that applies to this conversation:
A prohibited device is...
(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.
A .40 cal was originally designed to hold .40 cal, and therefore can only hold 10 rounds. Since the mag wasn't designed to hold 9mm, it doesn't matter how many you can fit in. Similarly, if you get 15 .25ACP in there, still no problem.
As you can see, there is no mention of how many are actually loaded in the mag of a caliber which it wasn't designed for.
Stop making up laws. 13 rounds of 9mm in a .40 cal mag is PERFECTLY LEGAL. Suck it up. Think outside the box.
A prohibited device is...
(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.
A .40 cal was originally designed to hold .40 cal, and therefore can only hold 10 rounds. Since the mag wasn't designed to hold 9mm, it doesn't matter how many you can fit in. Similarly, if you get 15 .25ACP in there, still no problem.
As you can see, there is no mention of how many are actually loaded in the mag of a caliber which it wasn't designed for.
Stop making up laws. 13 rounds of 9mm in a .40 cal mag is PERFECTLY LEGAL. Suck it up. Think outside the box.
No. As above, confirmed to me by the RCMP. It is the design and manufacture of the mag that is controlled, not the use.
I have a pretty good idea of who it was.
Wrong, as noted above. The law - which has been posted here - controls only the design and manufacture of the device. The use is uncontrolled.
Works reasonably well, I'm told, in beretta .40 mags loaded with 9mm.
You should care - because a) Storm is right and b) the law says what it says, and it doesn't say anything about the use of a mag.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Frankie, I am just reiterating what this PAL instructor told me, but because I would like to know for myself as I simply asked way back, I am going to call the RCMP on Monday and like acrashb, ask them to put it into writing. Acrashb, is that letter dated received from them?
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Your PAL instructor was.................mistaken.
Just like some well meaning but equally WRONG EESA Director told someone that EESA has a stupid 5 round rule. He was wrong.
People are oftent wrong and in this case many (most) shooters have bought into this error.
That however does not alter the law in any way shape or form.
I understand. I'm not trying to attack you. I run into instructors, range officers, and most shockingly, police, who don't know the firearms laws. I am just trying to erase this confusion.
I believe the intent of the gungrabbing lawmakers was to restrict handguns to 10 rounds. However, since they knew nothing about guns, they messed up the wording, and this is the result. This one is in our favour (relatively speaking), whereas the rest of the Firearms Act and CC are not.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Storm, as I am sure you will agree, I would bet that if you asked the CFO and or the RCMP, they would tell us that we are creating a gray area in this law and reading it wrong. Not that it is right or wrong as I am just not sure anymore regardless of what is printed and how it is read.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
I would agree that the CFO would take your perspective as they are well known for making up laws out of thin air.
The RCMP as acrashb has pointed out are well aware of the truth of the matter.
I hope he can find that doccument. Otherwise I will attempt get get something from them on this point starting next week
To me however it is not a grey area what so ever. It is black and white and totally logical. There is no question as to what is written and what it means.
Now as I saidl..............their intentions may have been different but that does not matter (reference C-25 and 12.6 firearms)
What matters is what the law actually says and it cannot be clearer.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
I will make a call Monday morning, I have a few friends in the RCMP in that section and Verification and will see if they will send me a document saying exactly what the law is and then scan and post it.
I don't put too much faith in what a PAL instructor says beyond what it takes to pass the CFSC.
I remember a bit of a s**t storm when I showed up at a match with a cx4 storm and shot a stage with my 10rnd mags...
Several self proclaimed experts proceeded to inform me of my illegal gun/mag/act...
Trying to convince them I was not illegal was pointless... Well not entirely.
One idiot did concede that the 10 round pistol mag wasn't illegal, but the instant I inserted that loaded mag into my cx4 I was committing an criminal offence...
Anyone with half a brain who looks into it and actually understands the info they dig up will find that acrashb and our somewhat aggitated friend Stormy are correct with regards to this discussion.
Why just today I stuffed 19 .32acp rounds into a 9mm glock mag. Well no, but you get the idea.... i hope.
Please clarify the bolded portion(spelling mistake aside).
Do you mean in relation to this particular discussion, or in general?
Because your comment is pretty broad.
You being a mod, I would have expected better.
All you have to remember is you can't have a magazine the is capable of loading more than 10 rds of ammunition for which the mag was designed for. Sure you can load porbabely 30 rds of 22lr in a double wide .45acl mag but the mag won't work in any .22lr pistol I am aware of. The 40.cal mag can be loaded with more than 10 rds of 9MM ammo, hell it can be loaded with more than 10 rds of .38 super but it won't work in the ,38super gun.
I am disappointed when comments arise such as what Stormbringer makes because unlike you there are inexperienced shooters out there who may well bend the lips of a .4ocal mag and make a .40cal mag work in a 9MM gun and think they are legal. Well they aren't. 10 rds is all you can load into your gun plus one in the chamber. There is no question about it. You know it and so do I. Stormbringer knows it too. Regardless of what I think about the law, it is explicit. If Stormbringer thinks otherwise then he is welcome to take his mag to the OPP show how he can load 13 rds of 9MM into a mag and load it in his gun and see where the courts take him. I suggest it woould be a one way street.
Please just live by the law and don't worry about couch lawyers who think the law gives a damm about semantics.
As to where it is located, just go up a few posts it is right there for you and anyone else to read.
Take Care
Bob
