Question for 9mm shooters in IPSC open division

9mm or 38supercomp?

If you are serious and want to win you will shoot 38 supercomp.

2 reasons 1/ reliability of ejection regardless of mag capaicty
2/ feed reliabilty in hi cap to compete outside of Canada ( 9mm requires a curved mag once the capacity gets up to 30, 38 supercomp is straight wall)

If you are not planning to shoot outside Canada you are not serious.

You can always shoot 9mm in your practice gun or barrel and 38Supercomp for real competition ( the cost of 500 spercomp cases is nothing compared to travel cost and major match fees)

If you are not serious it does not matter what you shoot.

Been there done that!

Big statement !! Many of us - member of IPSC Canada shoot in Canada only and are serious !! You definitely have an ego problem !! :)

And since you shoot in the USA you should be more than aware that more than one Area champion shoot and won with 9 Major !!
 
I had a 9mm top end for my Gold custom, and could not make it run reliably. Neither could anyone else I know of who tried it, but you may indeed have one that just magically works. But it's really a crap-shoot and if I was thinking about dropping 4K on a race gun I would prefer to go with something that is widely proven and save myself the stress of possibly having to screw around for a year trying to get it to run. The large frame mags aren't set up for the shorter 9mm case; they release too early, and I just didn't have time to mess endlessly with it. The small frame versions of the Gold Custom are however designed around the 9mm round, so the mags will feed them just fine.

Note that these are generally very accurate guns. Tack drivers actually.
Advantages of .38 Supercomp:
Reliabilty
Reliabilty
Reliabilty
Wider choice of powders
Reliabilty and finally....
Reliabilty

I owned many .38 Supercomp and I cannot sing the same tune as you. Even with Supercomp brass I still has issue with the 2011 mags and spring. Reliability is far from beign the exclusivity of the Supercomp ! The 9 Major is the same as the extra relaible 9 Luger with the exception of the long OAL of the bullet. My gun - polygonal rifling - hate plated bullet - undertandable at those velocities - by there is absolutely no issue with FMJ.

Choice of powder : You know like me that most IPSC shooter - when they have chosen their power - we stick with it unless it become unavailable.

You cannot beat a 9 mm for reliability - 9 major is used in more than one gun platform - many Glock are also converted and are more reliable than anything I have seen so far :)
 
9mm or 38supercomp?

If you are serious and want to win you will shoot 38 supercomp.

2 reasons 1/ reliability of ejection regardless of mag capaicty
2/ feed reliabilty in hi cap to compete outside of Canada ( 9mm requires a curved mag once the capacity gets up to 30, 38 supercomp is straight wall)

If you are not planning to shoot outside Canada you are not serious.

You can always shoot 9mm in your practice gun or barrel and 38Supercomp for real competition ( the cost of 500 spercomp cases is nothing compared to travel cost and major match fees)

If you are not serious it does not matter what you shoot.

Been there done that!

Curved mag for 9 mm ??? You just lost me there - I never seen a curved 9 mm mag --- Check the 32 rounds mag for AR - check the Glock 30 rounds mag and I can go on and on...no - the 9 mm mag are strait mag - there is no such thing as a .38 Supercomp mag - they are .38 Super mag for the rimmed cartridge - because of the reliability and blown head issues - shooter had to move on to the stronger supercomp - rimless version on the .38 Super. As for capacity - check your facts , Please.... the 9 mm is a bit smaller that .38 super/ Supercomp - no practical size difference - Glock was the first company to offer strait 30 rounds 9 mm mag. The Super/ Supercomp use staggered mag as most high cap 9 mm.

The real difference is that the .38 Super/ Supercomp must use a full size frame and mag and the 9 major can use the small frame ( note that you can also build a 9 major on a large frame and load (OAL) a bit longer ). ( major loaded right - there is no real difference with the .38 Super/ Supercomp except the economics of it and gun size.

9 major beat .38 Supercomp in reliability any day. It take quite a bit of tuning and maintenance to keep a .38 Supercomp going. A lot easier with 9 Major -- Been there and done that too...
 
I owned many .38 Supercomp and I cannot sing the same tune as you. Even with Supercomp brass I still has issue with the 2011 mags and spring. Reliability is far from beign the exclusivity of the Supercomp ! The 9 Major is the same as the extra relaible 9 Luger with the exception of the long OAL of the bullet. My gun - polygonal rifling - hate plated bullet - undertandable at those velocities - by there is absolutely no issue with FMJ.

Choice of powder : You know like me that most IPSC shooter - when they have chosen their power - we stick with it unless it become unavailable.

You cannot beat a 9 mm for reliability - 9 major is used in more than one gun platform - many Glock are also converted and are more reliable than anything I have seen so far :)

Glocks are designed around the 9mm cartridge. 2011's and large frame Tanfos are not. 2011's can be made to work (Aftecs help a lot) and small frame Tanfos work fine. You say yours works great but you don't mention how many rounds you shoot through it, if you shoot only in Canada (10 rounds), or if it is a large or small frame. You don't say if you ever get any jams in it either, and many folks who tell me their guns run fine don't mention that they might get a feed jam every 1000 rounds or so because they think that is acceptable. I don't view that as acceptable in a competition gun.

Buying a racing gun is a case of managing variables, and the more varaibles you accept, the more likely you are to run into issues. this problem increases with the number of rounds you shoot per year. If you only shoot a couple of thousand per year your gun may indeed run fine so far, but if you shoot 40,000 rounds, well that is a different matter.

If you have narrowed your window of functional reliability by introducing the dimensional variations you get in typical 9mm brass manufacturers, and by shooting a caliber that the platform wasn't initially designed around it means that you will encounter these issues sooner than later, mathematically speaking. That's just reality. There are things that can be done to make the 2011 work...most of the time. But without a better magazine design for the large frame Tanfo, i can't recommend it for 9mm major.

What I am trying to do here is not steer anyone in any particular direction.
Rather; I am trying to give them the benefit of years of hard experience, research and knowledge of these particular designs so that they can make an informed choice. I cannot in all good conscience tell someone something is great and it works wonderfully when the only data sample I have is my own personal stuff, and without providing a credible base-line from which to consider the data.

By all means, if 9mm brass is cheap and available and you have someone who can set up a 9 major gun for you, fill your boots. I know lots of guys out there will tell you their guns work fine, and they may indeed. But if you are buying a 9mm major new yours probably won't (statistically speaking) until you get someone knowledgeable to work with it. So be prepared to accept that you may have to do a lot of constant buggering around to keep it in the game. For my money, one major match blown because of a death jam on a 160 point long course totally negates the supposed savings in going 9mm. It's just not worth the frustration.

and yes, I know that all race guns require tuning and babying to some degree. That is not what I am referring to. Once a super is set up and tuned it should run until wear and tear issues intercede, and if you are doing things correctly you should catch that stuff before it comes up. A gun that is designed for a longer round is never going to be an ideal platform for a shorter round, and that's not going to change. It's about risk/vs gain for me.

FWIW: My last batch of Supercomp cost $160.00/thousand. I lost about 2000 cases last year at matches, so a difference of $320.00/year.
Try Aim 124 grain plated bullets in your Tanfo. They are hard cast rather than swaged from soft wire, and plated extra thick. They should group around 3" at 50 meters out of your polygonal barrel if you are capable of it.

So for those considering their options, good luck with the choice and may you have many hassle free rounds down range.

R
 
9 mil in general is a pain in the ass round to load (Major or Minor). Tapered case, lower case volume...and with used brass...about in in every few hundred has a crimped primer. The caliber really takes the fun out of reloading. It's a very unforgiving round to load...

Give yourself as many advantages as possible if you decide on a 9 major. The two most obvious are...use a gunsmith who is an expert in that particular monster (not all are) and be extra diligent with your reloads (and that includes case prep)

My requirements were simple. I don't want to pick brass...and I like to switch over to Prod once in a while...and I'm not all that serious :cool:

I ended up with a Bedell Custom...and a slide mounted optic (rebuilt and mounted by Beven Gram) I buy all my brass from Wolf...and it comes polished, deprimed, swaged, resized and trimmed (Essentially back to factory specs)

Even at that...I still have a glitch (about one every two years) and I usually trace it back to something I did (or forgot to do)
 
I've got my Dillion set up for the 9mm for my production, stupid question(may be): is the 38super more or less the same size as 9mm so that I don't have to change the setting of my dillion to reload them?
 
I've got my Dillion set up for the 9mm for my production, stupid question(may be): is the 38super more or less the same size as 9mm so that I don't have to change the setting of my dillion to reload them?
No, it's a different die set and shell plate. Sorry.
Even if you go to 9mm major so you can use the same dies you will have to change the seating die, as you will need to load quite a bit longer. Depending on the model of press you have (550, 650??) you would be better off with a separate tool head.
 
No, it's a different die set and shell plate. Sorry.
Even if you go to 9mm major so you can use the same dies you will have to change the seating die, as you will need to load quite a bit longer. Depending on the model of press you have (550, 650??) you would be better off with a separate tool head.

A Square Deal B.:) Still need to change?
If I go to 9mm major, the seating die which comes with the Dillion (One for RN, One for FN) will not work?
38super,different die set and shell plate...got it..THanks...
 
A Square Deal B.:) Still need to change?
If I go to 9mm major, the seating die which comes with the Dillion (One for RN, One for FN) will not work?
38super,different die set and shell plate...got it..THanks...
Yup, you'll still have to change the settings on your seating die for the longer oal (9 major). So you'll be dialing it in and out every time you want to switch from your Production loads to your Open loads. You don't have to buy another die, but it's still a bit of a pain.....
 
My requirements were simple. I don't want to pick brass...and I like to switch over to Prod once in a while...and I'm not all that serious :cool:

I ended up with a Bedell Custom...and a slide mounted optic (rebuilt and mounted by Beven Gram) I buy all my brass from Wolf...and it comes polished, deprimed, swaged, resized and trimmed (Essentially back to factory specs)

Even at that...I still have a glitch (about one every two years) and I usually trace it back to something I did (or forgot to do)

Dude, all you need is a CasePro, and a monkey chained to the bench to crank the handle.
 
Yup, you'll still have to change the settings on your seating die for the longer oal (9 major). So you'll be dialing it in and out every time you want to switch from your Production loads to your Open loads. You don't have to buy another die, but it's still a bit of a pain.....

I am sure I am not one of those serious enough fellow you guys are talking about. I shot only about 300 - 400 rounds per week.

I'd always dream to have a race gun. However, for my budget, I may have to give up some of the reliability issue and go for the 9 major of the small frame Tanfogilo. At this stage, I simply cannot afford to add more die set to my press as well as purchase the 38super brass over just picking those once fired brass at my club. I shoot production mainly; I may only shoot Open may be once in a while.

In order to own a race gun and need not to be readjusted all my reloader's setting, and also be able to use my CZShadow's magazines, I have not much choice left.

But it will still be a while before I go forward for my decision.
 
I am sure I am not one of those serious enough fellow you guys are talking about. I shot only about 300 - 400 rounds per week.

I'd always dream to have a race gun. However, for my budget, I may have to give up some of the reliability issue and go for the 9 major of the small frame Tanfogilo. At this stage, I simply cannot afford to add more die set to my press as well as purchase the 38super brass over just picking those once fired brass at my club. I shoot production mainly; I may only shoot Open may be once in a while.

In order to own a race gun and need not to be readjusted all my reloader's setting, and also be able to use my CZShadow's magazines, I have not much choice left.

But it will still be a while before I go forward for my decision.

You know what's going to happen don't you? Ok, I'll say it:
You'll buy an Open gun, become addicted, and that will end up being the only ammo you load. It's a disease.
 
Yup, you'll still have to change the settings on your seating die for the longer oal (9 major). So you'll be dialing it in and out every time you want to switch from your Production loads to your Open loads. You don't have to buy another die, but it's still a bit of a pain.....


Or buy the redding competition seating die (Micrometer adjusted)

I have mine zeroed for my open load...and If I swith to 9 minor...I just drop on a new powder measure and dial down the seating die.

Much easier than changing the tool head on the 1050
 
Also known as the "Blind Old Guys Club."
:agree: I stop shooting my open gun, Got my self an Edge.. Shot a club match and had a hard time looking for the front sight and the brain is telling me to go faster lol. I parked the Edge and going back to open:D
relliott, Where do you buy your 38 supercomp brass @ $160 per K?
 
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Big statement !! Many of us - member of IPSC Canada shoot in Canada only and are serious !! You definitely have an ego problem !!

Sorry if the truth hurts, but my statement is factual and is no reflection of my ability.

Open in Canada can be won by old men who should be in a rocking chair, no one is really serious here.

If you are not a pro gunsmith it is unlikely you can tune a 9mm open gun to 100% reliabilty. ( the only US shooters who can win with 9MM are JOJO and JL Hardy, both are pro gunsmiths, Eric Graufel who is very frugal shoots 38supercomp in matches but what would he know)
 
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