Noob Question, how to shoot better than 3"?

TargetNorth

TargetNorth

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Hi Everyone

Well, tried out three new loads at the range today. 100m, -15 Celcius, with my Remington 700 SPS-DM in .243 Winchester. Scope is a Falcon Menace 4.5-14x. Shooting off a rear rest, and bipod, on a heavy wood table.

I tried 10 shots of each of 100 grain Hornady BTSP, once shot brass neck sized and sorted by brand, powder weighed to +/- .1 grain and the following loads:

-38.0 gr IMR4831
-38.5 gr IMR 4831
-39.0 gr IMR 4831

Groups? Weeeell... not too proud but in the 3" range. I honestly have shot better with my open sighted SKS (shot 4 in one long jagged hole two weeks ago). The best I've shot with this rifle is about 1" (3 to 5 shot groups) with 100 gr Hornady SP and 40 gr of IMR 4350.

My question and point of this thread: What can I do to improve? Is it gear? (sporter barrel and synthetic stock) Is it setup? (bags vs bipods?) Is it ammo (could these loads just be that bad?) Is it weather? Phases of the moon...?

Technique is the last one to mention. Any tips on how to improve?

I just realized I can't attach pictures without some way to host them... sorry about that. Groups were 3.1" (38 gr), 3.4" (38.5 gr) and 3.7" (39 gr).

Cheers.
 
Is your rifle bedded? Is the barrel free floated? How heavy is the trigger? Are the bases and rings tight? Are your action screws tight? Is there solvent or oil between the action and stock?
 
Caliber is .243 Winchester. Twist rate is 1 in 9-1/8". Rifle is stock (as in unmodified), so barrel is not bedded (supposed to be "free float", but don't see how it really can be, synthetic stock and all). I adjusted the trigger a bit lighter then standard, but don't have a gauge. I'll go over the hardware tonight, check and tighten everything up. I've never checked for oil between the action and the stock, but I'll wipe everything dry if needed.

Here is the exact gun:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-dm.aspx
 
Could me many things:
Are your action screws tightened down
Scope rings, bases... maybe even scope
Maybe it needs to be bedded
Bullets seated too deep or not deep enough
Is your barrel free floating (confirmed)

This gives you somewhere to start at least

Ivo
 
You forgot to mention any wind in your range weather report. Little sense in shooting for groups in the wind.

Remember when you're checking to make sure if everything is tight that it is the right amount of tight: ie torgue.

Could just be a bad day for you or maybe that combo of components just won't hunt with that rifle.

Perhaps shoot a group of factory to set a baseline? Or have another shooter take some swings with it?
 
There was almost no wind. I didn't let the barrel cool intentionally, just shot the 30 rounds with 2 extra before to check to make sure the rifle was still sighted in from last time, and then 2 at the end at the 300m gong (carry less home, right?).

Any idea what a factory box of ammo should shoot in a Remmy 700? Could you expect 1.5"? 1"? Also, I was shooting 10 shot groups. What number of shots do most guys shoot for their "1 moa grouping" etc?

I agree with having another shooter take some shots. There are some pretty good shooters at my club (one guy today was shooting .5" groups with his Savage 10, .308). That would eliminate me from the equation.
 
You have a thinner barrel on your rifle so like the other guys mentioned heat can be a big deal

Take a good break between shots and it may improve your groups. Keep in mind though that your rifle is by no means a precision rig. it is a hunting rifle so 3" is quite acceptable for hunting purposes, but with a trigger job, some bedding work and other associated work as well as some experimenting with loads i think you could get it down to 1 MOA or 1.5MOA groups every now and again.
 
10 shot groups is excessive for a pencil barrel. You will have some fliers once the barrel warms up. try 5 shots for now.

As far as everything else already said check your action screws, barrel floating. I always recommend bedding the action. Its a good project that pays off every time.
With your loads make sure that your about .01-02 into the lands and that you are not jamming them too hard or launching them too far. You might even want to try a different powder. Varget works really well in a 243. And it is pretty stable in different temperatures.
 
I had the identical gun. You'd get two shot's off, and then she'd be all over the map. Everything was tight... including the stock to the barrel. We took the barreled action off the stock, and found that the stock was twisted, and rubbing really hard on the barrel.
My advice..... either sand the sh!t out of the barrel channel of the stock, or throw the stock away. :)
 
No one made mention of this, but take off your bipod when shooting from the bench, and go with a front bag. If you can't hold your rifle still, you will not be able to shoot smaller groups. Try the three shot string without using the bipod, and your groups will shrink.

R.
 
Very interesting, thanks for all the comments.

I tried slipping a dollar bill (well, I guess a 20 dollar bill) between the barrel and stock, and it would not go at all. So sanding sounds like a good idea. I have front and rear bags, so I'll take the bipod off and just shoot of those aswell. I'll also try smaller groupings next time (3?) and make sure the barrel is cool between shots.

I was looking at it also, and I think the scope is *slightly* off kilter, as when I try to line the rifle perfectly vertical, the scope is tilted ever so slightly. Any ideas how to perfectly align that? It's really close, but it could be a contributing factor.

Thanks for the ideas.
 
TargetNorth said:
I was looking at it also, and I think the scope is *slightly* off kilter, as when I try to line the rifle perfectly vertical, the scope is tilted ever so slightly. Any ideas how to perfectly align that? It's really close, but it could be a contributing factor.

Thanks for the ideas.
Click to expand...

The scope being off kilter ever so slightly shouldn't make any difference unless you've got a rail installed to increase your scopes effective elevation adjustment, like say a 20 MOA rail. If you don't have the rail, it won't matter how you hold the rifle, as long as the cross hairs are level.

Start with the sanding.... :)
 
Try smaller groupings and make sure you are not flinching, and review your breathing/aiming/trigger squeeze, the way you may be working the trigger can really pull you off the bull.
 
If it were me, before sanding... check all mounting screws are tight (as above), and bag your front end - I've noticed that on a hard surface your bipod can, if not holding properly, make the front bounce erradically - and groups become huge!
my 2 cents
 
yes remington plastic factory stocks have two pressure points touching the bottom of the barrel right at the end of the forend fter you remove these the barrel may touch in other spots too, these barrels most definitely go off kilter after any kind of heating up.
 
What sort of groups can you get with factory ammo?

You are way over-heating that barrel with a 30 round string. That is a hunting rifle meant to shoot 2-3 rounds, it is not a target rifle.

Clean it and shoot 3-round groups with cool-down in between.

I don't care how bad the stock is, the gun should be able to do better than that. Perhaps let someone else have a go and see. I helped a co-worker with identifying why the very same rifle and caliber was grouping 9" at 100M...

Funny enough, it grouped about an inch for me....
 
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