Snider-Enfields used in the seal hunt

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crusoe

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Does anyone know about the use of Snider-Enfields in the Newfoundland seal hunt?

Joe Salter currently has a commercial 1870 Snider Enfield (his no 2758) which he says was 'probably used as a ship's gun or in the sealing hunt.' I've seen another commercial Snider-Enfield with the name of a ship used in the seal hunt stamped on the butt, and I've heard anecdotally of others with Newfoundland ship's names stamped in this way.

I imagine the Snider-Enfield would have been an ideal gun for killing the larger seals as it was robust, reliable, fired a big round and could easily be cleaned and kept greased up against the salt water.

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who can add to this or who has seen guns stamped with the names of known Newfoundland sealing ships - the seal hunt is a fascinating but neglected bit of Canadian firearms history.
 
I once read an on line book with a reference to Sniders being used in the seal hunt. I saw a film once, showing Newfie seal hunters, and some of them had Martini-Enfields. I understand that commercial P1853's were widely used on ships, as well. I guess all ships carried guns in the old days?
 
I had one and sadly sold it. It was off of the sailing ship "Kite" and was marked with the ship's name and the number "9". Got it from a collector in Texas. It was very well worn but complete. They were used extensively whether for defense on the high seas or for hunting seals. I do believe there was a variety of seal which was very protective of their young and were shot for their pelts and oil. Dave
 
Bushman, I believe that you would find that most sea going vessels do have rifles on board and some sort of restraints and a lock-up facility. Now....what ever those ships that are being hijacked are equipped with ...it isn't sufficient. Dave
 
Dantforth said:
Bushman, I believe that you would find that most sea going vessels do have rifles on board and some sort of restraints and a lock-up facility. Now....what ever those ships that are being hijacked are equipped with ...it isn't sufficient. Dave
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I imagine many ships do carry rifles, but it would depend on the owner, I guess. I know even the ferry that used to come here (the one that sank a couple of years ago) had a brig. And no, I didn't see it, myself! ;) Most, if not all, officers on the old time ocean liners had revolvers, too, so rifles were most likely carried on them, as well. Perhaps BSA commercial SMLE's on ships like the "Lusitania"? And how many weapons per ship? 20? 50? :confused:
 
BUSHMAN79 said:
I guess all ships carried guns in the old days?
Click to expand...

Damn right! That's why pirates got extinct for a very long time... and are only now re-emerging in the gun-free liberal era (where victims can't fight back + liberal sentences are a joke... makes you wonder why there aren't MORE pirates out there, lol! After all, it seems to be a very safe profession nowadays.)

f:P:2:

Dantforth said:
Bushman, I believe that you would find that most sea going vessels do have rifles on board and some sort of restraints and a lock-up facility. Now....what ever those ships that are being hijacked are equipped with ...it isn't sufficient. Dave
Click to expand...

I have an uncle that spent his whole life on ocean ships... they usually start off in Europe, then go to Africa and then either the Americas or Asia. None of the ships he was on over many decades carried ANY armament, their directive was to avoid all confrontation at all costs (apparently, that applies to all commercial fleets - I don't know under which laws though). How very socialist! My uncle also thinks that policy is BS and doesn't feel safe at all when near danger zones, but would certainly lose his job if he was packing heat and anyone would find out. If I were on one of those freakin ships, I'd always have an SKS or CZ stashed away in my cabin - or a Dragunov/AK, if the ship was registered outside of Canada (even better!). In such a situation of constant piracy danger, I'd certainly say "screw their stupid fleet procedures and maritime laws, my life is worth more than a piece of paper with some writing on it". After all, pirates don't obey it and nothing happens to them (most of the time, as usually they just get released free without their guns when caught).

That said, I would never settle for being like one of those poor fools sitting in the galley of their own ship with some stinkin' pirate pointing an AK barrel at their head... and demanding ransom on CNN!

Beeh... beeh.. beeh... (sheep sounds)

:jerkit:


P.S. I saw my uncle just a few months ago and we had a very long talk about this matter, since it is very current these days and I'm into firearm collecting/target shooting. He told me that a commercial ship's best defense is range. The speedboats can't keep up with them in the long run, simply because they don't have enough fuel to get back to shore. This is why ships will tend to stay away from the coast or any large 'mother ship' that may be lurking on radar in a danger zone. That strategy works *most* of the time (unless someone falls asleep at the switch), but there are no guns on board... with the exception of a possible 9mm pistol that the ship captain may or may not carry (to counteract a mutiny, perhaps? Definitely not for pirate defense).
 
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I own a Snider Enfield marked to the "SS Kite" a sealing ship which sailed out of Newfoundland. The ship sank in 1918.
 
Junkman, you are a piece of work! Either you didn't read all of the posting or you are pulling our legs. I sold, or was it traded, that hunk of junk to you....did I say that? Want to sell it now? YBB Dave
 
I have seen Sniders marked to "SS TERRA NOVA" and "SS VIKING", also a couple of others that I can't remember. Each had a rack number, too.

If you have George Allen England's book "The Greatest Hunt in the World", you will notice Farquharson rifles in some of the photos. These would likely have been personally-owned rifles. Most of these used the .450" straight-case blackpowder round, about 3 inches long.

In the 1970s and early 1980s, the Norwegian ships were using full-length 6.5mm Krags. It is simply AMAZING how many of these developed legs and walked home after the hunt was over! Ammo was by Norma/Oslo and was packed in 50-round boxes. 156-grain soft-point nickel-jacketed bullet. Boxes were marked "Spesielt fabrikert for Selfangst" (Specially made for Seal-hunt).

Hope this helps a bit.
 
Crusoe:
I have a single shot rifle with "SS Viking No. 4" stamped into the right side of the butt stock. It was made for Bowerings by Alex Henry of Edinburgh, Scotland. The Viking was an early steel hulled sealer that was being used to film a movie about the seal hunt when one night the powder magazine exploded, blew the stern off the ship and killed many of those on board in 1912. This rifle was apparently carried across about 15 miles of sea ice to shore by one of the survivors. Wickipedia has the story of the SS Viking. It was purchased in Saint John's NFLD during WW II by a friend of my uncle who was in the Merchant Marine and mailed it to his home in Port Hope ON. My uncle bought it after the war and subsequently I inherited it.
The caliber is .450 BP Express and I have a cartridge for it. Case is straight, 3 1/4" long, takes about 110 gr BP and used about 360 gr cast lead slug. The bore is rough and there is little original finish on the outside but the inside of the back-action lock and the barrel inside the forend still have original finish and look as new. These guns were used for killing the adult seals
I consider it a unique piece of Canadiana.
 
Ol' Flinter said:
Crusoe:
I have a single shot rifle with "SS Viking No. 4" stamped into the right side of the butt stock. It was made for Bowerings by Alex Henry of Edinburgh, Scotland. The Viking was an early steel hulled sealer that was being used to film a movie about the seal hunt when one night the powder magazine exploded, blew the stern off the ship and killed many of those on board in 1912. This rifle was apparently carried across about 15 miles of sea ice to shore by one of the survivors. Wickipedia has the story of the SS Viking. It was purchased in Saint John's NFLD during WW II by a friend of my uncle who was in the Merchant Marine and mailed it to his home in Port Hope ON. My uncle bought it after the war and subsequently I inherited it.
The caliber is .450 BP Express and I have a cartridge for it. Case is straight, 3 1/4" long, takes about 110 gr BP and used about 360 gr cast lead slug. The bore is rough and there is little original finish on the outside but the inside of the back-action lock and the barrel inside the forend still have original finish and look as new. These guns were used for killing the adult seals
I consider it a unique piece of Canadiana.
Click to expand...

Neat story, thanks for sharing! Where are the pics? :confused:
 
762mm said:
Damn right! That's why pirates got extinct for a very long time... and are only now re-emerging in the gun-free liberal era (where victims can't fight back + liberal sentences are a joke... makes you wonder why there aren't MORE pirates out there, lol! After all, it seems to be a very safe profession nowadays.)

f:P:2:



I have an uncle that spent his whole life on ocean ships... they usually start off in Europe, then go to Africa and then either the Americas or Asia. None of the ships he was on over many decades carried ANY armament, their directive was to avoid all confrontation at all costs (apparently, that applies to all commercial fleets - I don't know under which laws though). How very socialist! My uncle also thinks that policy is BS and doesn't feel safe at all when near danger zones, but would certainly lose his job if he was packing heat and anyone would find out. If I were on one of those freakin ships, I'd always have an SKS or CZ stashed away in my cabin - or a Dragunov/AK, if the ship was registered outside of Canada (even better!). In such a situation of constant piracy danger, I'd certainly say "screw their stupid fleet procedures and maritime laws, my life is worth more than a piece of paper with some writing on it". After all, pirates don't obey it and nothing happens to them (most of the time, as usually they just get released free without their guns when caught).

That said, I would never settle for being like one of those poor fools sitting in the galley of their own ship with some stinkin' pirate pointing an AK barrel at their head... and demanding ransom on CNN!

Beeh... beeh.. beeh... (sheep sounds)

:jerkit:


P.S. I saw my uncle just a few months ago and we had a very long talk about this matter, since it is very current these days and I'm into firearm collecting/target shooting. He told me that a commercial ship's best defense is range. The speedboats can't keep up with them in the long run, simply because they don't have enough fuel to get back to shore. This is why ships will tend to stay away from the coast or any large 'mother ship' that may be lurking on radar in a danger zone. That strategy works *most* of the time (unless someone falls asleep at the switch), but there are no guns on board... with the exception of a possible 9mm pistol that the ship captain may or may not carry (to counteract a mutiny, perhaps? Definitely not for pirate defense).
Click to expand...

What a crock!:mad: All ships should be REQUIRED to carry a supply of rifles! Anyway, when a ship carried rifles, did they generally carry all one type, Sniders or M-H's, etc? Or did they simply carry whatever was available in assorted calibres? Would they buy, say, P53's all from the same contractor specifically to equip the ship? There is a P53 on the EE right now, looks like it might have been a ship's gun.
 
Was that not the ship that Varrick Frizzell was on, filming the hunt?

Seal-oil would have soaked the deck, creating a definite fire hazard at the very least. And those ships carried tons of blackpowder in kegs, used for blasting 'lakes' through the ice.

"Thou shalt not smoke on deck when seated next to the black-powder magazine!"

I was told by more than one old-timer that frizzell and his crew didn't obey any regulations than they wanted to.... and they smoked. DEFINITELY bad for your health!
 
The top gun is a Daniel Fraser single shot rifle made before 1888 and was on the SS Greenland which of the reserch I have done had one of the worst disasters in sealing history by loosing a lot men on ice flows when a strom came in when they were out hunting seals.
The gun is in 450 3 1/4 black powder express

The second gun is a Alex Henry single shot leaving the factory in 1884 and was asigned to the SS Panter and was gun #7 it is also in 450 3 1/4 BPE Again in my limited reserch the Panter was either the first or one of the first sealers that was steam powered



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Thanks very much for such interesting responses - I knew there would be a few out there and this has turned into an excellent thread!

The fascinating thing about a number of these ships is not only their sealing history, but also the fact that several of them played a major part in Arctic and Antarctic exploration.

So far: SS Kite, SS Viking, SS Greenland, SS Panter, SS Terra Nova.

Great stuff.
 
I just typed "SS TERRA NOVA" into Wikipedia and got an awesome variety of links.

There is a new book out in England on the "Terra Nova", hundreds of pages, about 140 photos, all the rest. It's also 30 quid a copy, plus shipping to the Colonies, of course.

Now, where did I put that old bag of two-bob pieces?
 
BTW, Sea Shepherd Conservation Society is still slandering poor old Capt. Abraham Kean, saying that he was in command of the "Greenland" during the disaster. Kean wasn't even aboard of the "Greenland": he was skipper on the old "Roarer" that year (SS AURORA).

Use Kean's name for a query on Google and it's amazing what you can come up with.

"Come all you bold young thoughtless men,
A warning take from me,
And never leave your happy homes
To sail the raging sea....."
 
My Alex Henry is identical to the one shown by WR1894 except that the exterior finish on mine might be a bit better and mine has light engraving on the lock plate and receiver. The book by G. E. England is a fantastic first-hand glimpse into life on a sealing ship: dangerous, dirty and smelly. The "Farquarson" rifles mentioned in a previous post may well have been Alex Henrys. He recounts the use of black powder for blasting ice and reloading thousands of rifle cartridges because they might fire in excess of 500 per day at adult seals - geez, the best we can do now is a gopher shoot in Alberta or Saskatchewan but we can't even sell the pelts to cover costs!

I have a paperback titled "Goin' to the Ice - Offbeat History of the Newfoundland Sealfishery" by Michael Harrington (1986) that recounts tales about many of the ships mentioned above and that's where I learned the story of the SS Viking's demise. Hell, the SS Erik was even sunk by a U-Boat! I was incorrect in my previous post when I said the Viking sunk in 1912 - it was March 15, 1931 when she exploded and apparently 118 of the crew were rescued over the following couple of days. Capt. Abraham Kean, Jr. was on the bridge when the explosion occurred and was injured when thrown from the bridge by the concussion.

Question: if I provided the serial number could someone tell me when my Alex Henry was manufactured?
 
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