http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447602
I've got mine booked,so it's safe to let the rest of you know about it.
I've got mine booked,so it's safe to let the rest of you know about it.
8.5" Grizzly's pre-order!
- Thread starter curtmg
- Start date
I can't wait to pose in the mirror, Outlaw in one hand, Griz in the other. I like to use my shotguns for blasting Milkjugs, Watermelons, and things that go bump in the night
Look forward to a new Avatar, in a couple months
For things that go bump in the night or wilderness defense is sacrificing half of the magazine capacity worth the return?
The gun won't be that much more portable or easy to carry than a 12.5" model with a full length magazine, muzzle blast and flash will be worse and velocity drops of rapidly in a shotgun barrel once it gets below 12 inches.
There are some benefits to short barrels but once they get too short effectiveness is compromised.
Unless you are going to have it in your hands at all times carrying a pump shotgun in the bush with a round in the chamber, hammer cocked isn't advisable. The best method of carrying a bush gun is either with a sling or strapped to a pack, hammer down and chamber empty. For practical purposes the 8" Grizzly is a two-shot gun.My Perazzi only holds two, so this is one more
I'd rather have a slightly longer barrel at 12.5 with four shots or even a 14" with a one shot extension and that's before getting into the ballistic compromises of an 8" barrel.
Congratulations on acquiring a Perazzi. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
frenchyguy
CGN Regular
- Location
- New Brunswick
stupid!
here it is! you have been waiting for someone to say it, wait no more. WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE THAT SEE NO PURPOSE FOR "FUN GUNS" FEEL THE NEED TO GO TO A THREAD FOR "FUN GUNS" AND BASH THEM?????? do you ever see people in a thread for geese guns, asking why they would want that for shooting milk jugs? NO! i guess that is because that the "fun gun" people have the COMMON SENSE, to know that it not going to be used for shooting milk jugs, it is going to be used for hunting geese, and designed for that purpose. why the hell people would want to spend their time posting such "witty" comments in an area, that they claim they CANT UNDERSTAND, is beyond me.
nuff said!
here it is! you have been waiting for someone to say it, wait no more. WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE THAT SEE NO PURPOSE FOR "FUN GUNS" FEEL THE NEED TO GO TO A THREAD FOR "FUN GUNS" AND BASH THEM?????? do you ever see people in a thread for geese guns, asking why they would want that for shooting milk jugs? NO! i guess that is because that the "fun gun" people have the COMMON SENSE, to know that it not going to be used for shooting milk jugs, it is going to be used for hunting geese, and designed for that purpose. why the hell people would want to spend their time posting such "witty" comments in an area, that they claim they CANT UNDERSTAND, is beyond me.
nuff said!
Seems relevant in this case:
http://www.nfa.ca/node/128
Barrel and Firearms Lengths
* Legal Issues
Barrel and Firearms Lengths
An unholy mess has been made by earlier legislation plus Bill C-68 regarding the definitions of non-restricted firearms, "restricted firearms", "prohibited firearms" [the two in quotes are defined by CC s. 84(1); the term non-restricted is not defined in the law]. Let's try it this way, for the education of those who want to understand this area of law:
NOTE: NONE OF THIS POSTING APPLIES TO ANY FULL AUTO FIREARM, BECAUSE ALL FULL AUTO FIREARMS ARE "PROHIBITED FIREARMS" BY CC S. 84(1) DEFINITION.
LESS THAN 18.5"/470mm BARREL LENGTH RULES:
CC s. 84(1) "restricted firearm" (b): If a firearm has a barrel length less than 18.5"/470mm AND is centrefire AND is semi-automatic, that combination forces the firearm into the "restricted firearm" class. In such a case, IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW THE BARREL ARRIVED AT THAT LENGTH. The rule is the same regardless of how it ARRIVED at the too-short length -- but note carefully that this rule is overridden by the rule just below if the barrel is SHORTENED BY CUTTING IT DOWN OR BY SUBSTITUTION to less than 18"/457mm. That is a case of "the specific overrides the general."
Therefore, a Browning Auto-5 or Remington Model 11-87 shotgun with an 18-5/8"/474mm barrel is non-restricted. Cut the barrel to 18-1/4"/464mm and it becomes a "restricted firearm." Cut it again -- to 17-7/8"/454mm -- and it becomes a "prohibited firearm." It is amazing how cutting 3/8"/10mm rings off its barrel changes the basic character of the firearm, with less than an inch of overall length change!
If you then refit the firearm with a 20" barrel, it becomes a non-restricted firearm again. It doesn't HAVE to make sense, it's GOVERNMENT POLICY.
LESS THAN 18"/457mm BARREL LENGTH RULES:
CC s. 84(1) "prohibited firearm" (d): If the barrel has been SHORTENED to less than 18"/457mm, after leaving the factory, "by sawing, cutting or ANY other alteration or modification" that forces the firearm into the "prohibited firearm" class.
NOTE: The firearm is NOT forced into the "prohibited firearm" class if it left the factory with the barrel at below-18"/457mm barrel length. I have, for example, a .22 rimfire semi-auto 30-shot rifle with a 9-3/4" barrel, a .410 single-shot shotgun with an 11-3/4" barrel, two 12-gauge pump-action shotguns with 14" barrels, a .22 rimfire pump-action rifle with a 17-7/8" custom barrel and a .223 calibre rifle with a 14" barrel -- AND ALL OF THEM ARE NON-RESTRICTED. THAT IS BECAUSE THEY EITHER LEFT THE FACTORY WITH THOSE BARRELS, OR WERE FITTED WITH FACTORY- OR CUSTOM-MADE BARRELS IN THOSE LENGTHS AT SOME LATER DATE, and were NEVER fitted with a longer barrel. One left the factory with NO barrel, and so a 14" barrel could be legally fitted.
My assembly of that collection of idiocy demonstrations was deliberate. The law apparently tried to prohibit certain lengths of barrel or firearm -- and failed miserably, because the limits are all conditional. Assembling the necessary parts to change one of your firearms into one of my above-noted configurations is something you can do as a hobby. It is a risky hobby. You may be forced to defend the legality of what you have, or have done, in a court of law -- at heavy expense -- because some police officer does NOT understand all the above technicalities. You may even be convicted -- because some JUDGE does not understand firearms law. Did YOU understand it before reading ALL of this posting? Are you SURE you understand the limits NOW?
It is IMPORTANT to understand what you can and cannot do.
OVERALL LENGTH LESS THAN 26"/660mm RULES:
CC s. 84(1) "prohibited firearm" (b): This is another clause of the same law -- the one cited immediately above -- and it applies in the same way. If the firearm ARRIVES at the "less than 26"/660mm in overall length" condition by "sawing, cutting" etc., then it is forced into the "prohibited firearm" class. If it left the factory at that too-short length, the limit does NOT apply. It is non-restricted, UNLESS it is semi-automatic AND centrefire.
Example: A Remington Model 870 pump-action shotgun that has been fitted with a Scattergun Technologies 12"/305mm barrel and a Pachmayr pistol grip is less than 26"/660mm in overall length, but is NOT "prohibited." It is a "prohibited firearm" if this was done to a Remington 870 that left the factory with those parts, but it is non-restricted if it was re-manufactured and left the Scattergun Technologies factory with them. It doesn't HAVE to make sense -- it's GOVERNMENT POLICY.
Note that WHICH class the short firearm becomes -- non-restricted, "restricted" OR "prohibited" -- depends upon HOW it ARRIVED at that shortened length. That strongly reinforces what I have said above about the length determination -- overall OR barrel length -- NOT being enough to decide which class the firearm falls into. Knowing the WAY the firearm or barrel ARRIVED at that short length is vital to understanding this area of the law when determining the class of firearm.
I hope that this clarifies the situation for you -- as much as is possible with such badly-written law.
Note that a "firearm" is defined, in CC s. 2 "firearm," as: "a barrelled firearm from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a barrelled firearm and anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm."
What that means is that the "frame or receiver" is a firearm. If you add more uncontrolled 'spare parts' to the basic "firearm" (the "frame or receiver"), it is STILL a "firearm."
You are NOT required to register 'uncontrolled spare parts.' There is no way to identify such parts -- they usually do not have Serial numbers. You are NOT required to register anything but the "firearm" -- and that means only the "frame or receiver."
You may convert all registrations you now hold to registrations of the "frame or receiver" -- and that will make your registration far more flexible. The firearms control bureaucracy has added a special subdivision -- "frame or receiver ONLY." That is NOT how a "frame or receiver" should be registered if there is even one screw attached to it. It should be registered as a partial firearm, NOT a "frame or receiver ONLY." The government's computer program cannot handle that variation, because the software is poorly designed and written, but that is what it should be registered as.
Whether or not a firearm is registered, the CLASS that the firearm falls into is controlled by the descriptions given in the current CC s. 84(1) "firearm", "restricted firearm" and "prohibited firearm" definitions.
There are no definitions of non-restricted firearm or deactivated firearm.
The definition of "firearm" is crippled in current law by the CC s. 2 "firearm" definition, and by the C-68 CC s. 84(3) conditional and partial redefinition of the words "firearm", "restricted firearm" and "prohibited firearm."
STUDY all this stuff. Yes, you CAN understand it. Firearms control law is NOT a can of worms. It is a barrel of rattlesnakes.
http://www.nfa.ca/node/128
Barrel and Firearms Lengths
* Legal Issues
Barrel and Firearms Lengths
An unholy mess has been made by earlier legislation plus Bill C-68 regarding the definitions of non-restricted firearms, "restricted firearms", "prohibited firearms" [the two in quotes are defined by CC s. 84(1); the term non-restricted is not defined in the law]. Let's try it this way, for the education of those who want to understand this area of law:
NOTE: NONE OF THIS POSTING APPLIES TO ANY FULL AUTO FIREARM, BECAUSE ALL FULL AUTO FIREARMS ARE "PROHIBITED FIREARMS" BY CC S. 84(1) DEFINITION.
LESS THAN 18.5"/470mm BARREL LENGTH RULES:
CC s. 84(1) "restricted firearm" (b): If a firearm has a barrel length less than 18.5"/470mm AND is centrefire AND is semi-automatic, that combination forces the firearm into the "restricted firearm" class. In such a case, IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW THE BARREL ARRIVED AT THAT LENGTH. The rule is the same regardless of how it ARRIVED at the too-short length -- but note carefully that this rule is overridden by the rule just below if the barrel is SHORTENED BY CUTTING IT DOWN OR BY SUBSTITUTION to less than 18"/457mm. That is a case of "the specific overrides the general."
Therefore, a Browning Auto-5 or Remington Model 11-87 shotgun with an 18-5/8"/474mm barrel is non-restricted. Cut the barrel to 18-1/4"/464mm and it becomes a "restricted firearm." Cut it again -- to 17-7/8"/454mm -- and it becomes a "prohibited firearm." It is amazing how cutting 3/8"/10mm rings off its barrel changes the basic character of the firearm, with less than an inch of overall length change!
If you then refit the firearm with a 20" barrel, it becomes a non-restricted firearm again. It doesn't HAVE to make sense, it's GOVERNMENT POLICY.
LESS THAN 18"/457mm BARREL LENGTH RULES:
CC s. 84(1) "prohibited firearm" (d): If the barrel has been SHORTENED to less than 18"/457mm, after leaving the factory, "by sawing, cutting or ANY other alteration or modification" that forces the firearm into the "prohibited firearm" class.
NOTE: The firearm is NOT forced into the "prohibited firearm" class if it left the factory with the barrel at below-18"/457mm barrel length. I have, for example, a .22 rimfire semi-auto 30-shot rifle with a 9-3/4" barrel, a .410 single-shot shotgun with an 11-3/4" barrel, two 12-gauge pump-action shotguns with 14" barrels, a .22 rimfire pump-action rifle with a 17-7/8" custom barrel and a .223 calibre rifle with a 14" barrel -- AND ALL OF THEM ARE NON-RESTRICTED. THAT IS BECAUSE THEY EITHER LEFT THE FACTORY WITH THOSE BARRELS, OR WERE FITTED WITH FACTORY- OR CUSTOM-MADE BARRELS IN THOSE LENGTHS AT SOME LATER DATE, and were NEVER fitted with a longer barrel. One left the factory with NO barrel, and so a 14" barrel could be legally fitted.
My assembly of that collection of idiocy demonstrations was deliberate. The law apparently tried to prohibit certain lengths of barrel or firearm -- and failed miserably, because the limits are all conditional. Assembling the necessary parts to change one of your firearms into one of my above-noted configurations is something you can do as a hobby. It is a risky hobby. You may be forced to defend the legality of what you have, or have done, in a court of law -- at heavy expense -- because some police officer does NOT understand all the above technicalities. You may even be convicted -- because some JUDGE does not understand firearms law. Did YOU understand it before reading ALL of this posting? Are you SURE you understand the limits NOW?
It is IMPORTANT to understand what you can and cannot do.
OVERALL LENGTH LESS THAN 26"/660mm RULES:
CC s. 84(1) "prohibited firearm" (b): This is another clause of the same law -- the one cited immediately above -- and it applies in the same way. If the firearm ARRIVES at the "less than 26"/660mm in overall length" condition by "sawing, cutting" etc., then it is forced into the "prohibited firearm" class. If it left the factory at that too-short length, the limit does NOT apply. It is non-restricted, UNLESS it is semi-automatic AND centrefire.
Example: A Remington Model 870 pump-action shotgun that has been fitted with a Scattergun Technologies 12"/305mm barrel and a Pachmayr pistol grip is less than 26"/660mm in overall length, but is NOT "prohibited." It is a "prohibited firearm" if this was done to a Remington 870 that left the factory with those parts, but it is non-restricted if it was re-manufactured and left the Scattergun Technologies factory with them. It doesn't HAVE to make sense -- it's GOVERNMENT POLICY.
Note that WHICH class the short firearm becomes -- non-restricted, "restricted" OR "prohibited" -- depends upon HOW it ARRIVED at that shortened length. That strongly reinforces what I have said above about the length determination -- overall OR barrel length -- NOT being enough to decide which class the firearm falls into. Knowing the WAY the firearm or barrel ARRIVED at that short length is vital to understanding this area of the law when determining the class of firearm.
I hope that this clarifies the situation for you -- as much as is possible with such badly-written law.
Note that a "firearm" is defined, in CC s. 2 "firearm," as: "a barrelled firearm from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a barrelled firearm and anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm."
What that means is that the "frame or receiver" is a firearm. If you add more uncontrolled 'spare parts' to the basic "firearm" (the "frame or receiver"), it is STILL a "firearm."
You are NOT required to register 'uncontrolled spare parts.' There is no way to identify such parts -- they usually do not have Serial numbers. You are NOT required to register anything but the "firearm" -- and that means only the "frame or receiver."
You may convert all registrations you now hold to registrations of the "frame or receiver" -- and that will make your registration far more flexible. The firearms control bureaucracy has added a special subdivision -- "frame or receiver ONLY." That is NOT how a "frame or receiver" should be registered if there is even one screw attached to it. It should be registered as a partial firearm, NOT a "frame or receiver ONLY." The government's computer program cannot handle that variation, because the software is poorly designed and written, but that is what it should be registered as.
Whether or not a firearm is registered, the CLASS that the firearm falls into is controlled by the descriptions given in the current CC s. 84(1) "firearm", "restricted firearm" and "prohibited firearm" definitions.
There are no definitions of non-restricted firearm or deactivated firearm.
The definition of "firearm" is crippled in current law by the CC s. 2 "firearm" definition, and by the C-68 CC s. 84(3) conditional and partial redefinition of the words "firearm", "restricted firearm" and "prohibited firearm."
STUDY all this stuff. Yes, you CAN understand it. Firearms control law is NOT a can of worms. It is a barrel of rattlesnakes.
Fun has it's place. But is the 8.5" version so much more "fun" that it is worth accepting the shorter gun's limitations should you decide to use it in the real world?
If only used it at the range the reduced magazine and lessened ballistic performance aren't issues. You can kill all the milk jugs and make as many big fire balls as you want. But for those who demand more of their shotguns the 12.5" Grizzly would be a better choice, better still would be a 14" with an extended magazine.
I don't know - I think a 8.5" shotgun would be great if you're doing a long hike in bear/cougar country - if only because it's easier to pack, carry and have quick access to (seeing as we can't carry handguns on Crown land).
Granted, my 12.5" backpacker is still pretty light as well - but there I'm assuming there are more accessories for an 870 knockoff than for that guy (side saddles, stock's etc.).
Granted, my 12.5" backpacker is still pretty light as well - but there I'm assuming there are more accessories for an 870 knockoff than for that guy (side saddles, stock's etc.).
- Location
- Canuckistan
Buggers to "usefullness". I like to collect and shoot em cause I can. No other reason.
That being said, I'll order when a MAG version comes out. It'll make a heckuva 3 gun shotgun with the mags. At least at the "unofficial" fun ones my range runs.
That being said, I'll order when a MAG version comes out. It'll make a heckuva 3 gun shotgun with the mags. At least at the "unofficial" fun ones my range runs.
The 12.5" version has four shots in the magazine. The 8.5" version has two.
The 12.5" version has higher velocity than the 8" version.
So there are two questions you have to answer:
Does the 4 more inches of the 12.5" version outweigh the 50 per cent reduction in magazine capacity and the lower velocity?
Which would you rather have if faced with something that can do you some harm?
- Location
- Witness Protection Program
I'm so glad I stumbled on this thread! I put in my pre-order too
