I am legally hunting with the gun when I use a black bear hunting license to justify my possession of it in the bush in August to gunophobic Ontario LEOs .......so I have to conform to the hunting regulations.
8.5" Grizzly's pre-order!
- Thread starter curtmg
- Start date
I am legally hunting with the gun when I use a black bear hunting license to justify my possession of it in the bush in August to gunophobic Ontario LEOs .......so I have to conform to the hunting regulations.
I refuse to accept that kind of logic.
Every province is different walnutz.
In bc, co's are pretty good about it. If you are wearing camo, have skinning tools etc, and are out in the early morning, they ain't gonna buy that you're just out for a walk.
But if you're obviously hiking, not trying to be 'invisible' to animals, have the kinds of things you'd expect a hiker or camper to have with them, etc then they're going to probably guess you ain't hunting.
I always have my hunting license with me anyway (no need for any tags - no law says i can't take a rabbit with a 416 rigby if i want to, never mind a shotgun
) But i don't think i've ever heard of anyone who wasn't hunting getting harassed. They're not idiots. People carry for protection and for fun plinking all the time here. And they have to prove you WERE hunting. Ontario -different story entirely.
Well good for you! Never let facts or common sense stand in your way
Fact is he's right. A bear can cover ground at more than 40 km per hour if it wants to, and chances are if it's actually a dangerous bear, you won't know or possibly even see it till it's pretty close. You'll have one or two chances to make a shot that will stop the bear.
The fact is - if you actually look at the cases where bears were stopped with guns, (and the bear was hostile and charging, not just a nuisance bear that was destroyed), the vast vast majority of SUCCESSFUL examples involve firing at very close ranges. People that shoot at a bear while it's still a fair ways off (especially a big bear like a griz, not so much black bears) often didn't fair so well.
I honestly believe it's the noise as much as anything that makes them break off - a face full of fire and sound is extremely disorienting and frightening to the bear. Big bears can shrug off amazing damage and keep going, but if they break off to figure out 'what the hell THAT was', then suddenly their systems start to shut down if you've wounded them badly.
I would be practicing to make two or three really good shots rather than hoping you'll get a chance for 8. Unless you're chuck norris and expecting to be attacked by a dozen highly trained ninja-bears at the same time.
Practice dropping to a knee (to get 'level' with the bear so your shots go end-to-end, not just down thru it) and wait till they're closer in (25 yards or less).
You can have as many single projectile (slug) rounds in your shotgun as you want, in BC.
You never know. More is better, but only to the point where the gun gets heavy/long and you leave it in the truck because it's cumbersome.
I'll take a 14" shotgun with 4+1 over both a 8.5 with 2+1 and a 18/20" shotguns with 7+1 anyday. It's a perfect balance, IMHO. YMMV....
Lots of scenarios where more than 2-3 rounds is going to be very beneficial to you.
Yea I heard that one before. Funny, I tried my 12inch outlaw to skeet shooting and most fudds were very very angry I was actually hitting them.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
*sigh*
you BC-ites never miss an opportunity to rub in how much more tolerant your laws and COs are than the ones in Failtario
with so many law-abiding gun owners being hassled by COs, OPP, RCMP here ive adopted the CYO mentality.
Yea I heard that one before. Funny, I tried my 12inch outlaw to skeet shooting and most fudds were very very angry I was actually hitting them.
I use my coach gun for clays. Works great. I wish it was a 16" though. I use it for fun, grouse, clays, ducks and one day geese. I outshoot most with it and the laughing stops. No need for 30" barrels. I even used it as a camp bear gun one fall. It didn't like slugs so I used buckshot. I would love a 8" shottie for grouse. I shoot on the wing and in very thick overgrown bush. When the coach gun feels long then thats when the grouse show up. lots of fun.
I was just playing around with a ballistic calculator, just one of the dozen or so freebies off of google. If we're gettting 1100 fps, with a one ounce slug, that's still more energy than 1400 fps, with a 240 gr bullet from a 44 magnum. Given the number of 44 magnums used for wilderness ATC's, and this is more power than that, I think the lost velocity argument is kind of silly. I'm not saying there aren't better, or more appropriate tools, but like they say, the first rule of winning a gun fight is to have a gun. If being small and packable in the extreme, is going to make you carry it with you, when you might have left something bigger behind, then you're better off already.
If the muzzle blast and flash are going to bother you, there's better guns for you. Some of us like hand cannons.
Of course, here in southern Manitoba, I'm more likely to run into a unicorn than be attacked by an aggressive and violent bear. Unless of course, I decide to get between a blackie and the garbage dumps.
If the muzzle blast and flash are going to bother you, there's better guns for you. Some of us like hand cannons.
Of course, here in southern Manitoba, I'm more likely to run into a unicorn than be attacked by an aggressive and violent bear. Unless of course, I decide to get between a blackie and the garbage dumps.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
the problem with most ballistic calculators is that they generally add/subtract a fixed amount - say 25fps - for every inch of barrel length change.
this is not correct: barrel length does not have a linear effect on muzzle velocity - its a curve with severely diminishing returns beyond the point where most of the powder is burned. there will still be plenty of unburned powder from an 8.5" barrel, but its still going to be nowhere near as bad as the 6.5" barrel figures people are quoting.
the short sighting plane argument is moot for this particular gun since many of the people wanting one of these for wildlife/home defense would much rather choose a large caliber handgun if they had the option (basically the niche these guns are filling in Canada) - which has an even shorter sight plane yet you dont hear anyone complaining about that. the sighting plane is perfectly adequate for the short ranges these guns are intended to be used for.
this is not correct: barrel length does not have a linear effect on muzzle velocity - its a curve with severely diminishing returns beyond the point where most of the powder is burned. there will still be plenty of unburned powder from an 8.5" barrel, but its still going to be nowhere near as bad as the 6.5" barrel figures people are quoting.
the short sighting plane argument is moot for this particular gun since many of the people wanting one of these for wildlife/home defense would much rather choose a large caliber handgun if they had the option (basically the niche these guns are filling in Canada) - which has an even shorter sight plane yet you dont hear anyone complaining about that. the sighting plane is perfectly adequate for the short ranges these guns are intended to be used for.
Timberwolfe
CGN Regular
Of course, here in southern Manitoba, I'm more likely to run into a unicorn than be attacked by an aggressive and violent bear. Unless of course, I decide to get between a blackie and the garbage dumps.
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2 summers back a man living just outside of Selkirk was mauled by black bear picking berry's in his back 40. In the first year that the cubs are kicked away from mommy bear they can be very dangerous finding a place to fit in. They may only be 100-150 lbs but they are the ones to fear. Hungry and stupid.
How far from Winnipeg to Selkirk?
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2 summers back a man living just outside of Selkirk was mauled by black bear picking berry's in his back 40. In the first year that the cubs are kicked away from mommy bear they can be very dangerous finding a place to fit in. They may only be 100-150 lbs but they are the ones to fear. Hungry and stupid.
How far from Winnipeg to Selkirk?
darkshadow
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- OH Ontario, OH NO!
I don't think so this is a guy's custom 6 1/2" grizz mag and his just makes it when blocked so 8.5 should be GTG.
^^^^^
That thing is hilarious! Can't wait!
That thing is hilarious! Can't wait!
Well good for you! Never let facts or common sense stand in your way
Fact is he's right. A bear can cover ground at more than 40 km per hour if it wants to, and chances are if it's actually a dangerous bear, you won't know or possibly even see it till it's pretty close. You'll have one or two chances to make a shot that will stop the bear.
The fact is - if you actually look at the cases where bears were stopped with guns, (and the bear was hostile and charging, not just a nuisance bear that was destroyed), the vast vast majority of SUCCESSFUL examples involve firing at very close ranges. People that shoot at a bear while it's still a fair ways off (especially a big bear like a griz, not so much black bears) often didn't fair so well.
I honestly believe it's the noise as much as anything that makes them break off - a face full of fire and sound is extremely disorienting and frightening to the bear. Big bears can shrug off amazing damage and keep going, but if they break off to figure out 'what the hell THAT was', then suddenly their systems start to shut down if you've wounded them badly.
I would be practicing to make two or three really good shots rather than hoping you'll get a chance for 8. Unless you're chuck norris and expecting to be attacked by a dozen highly trained ninja-bears at the same time.
I'm sorry but I still refuse to say "Oh well forget it, I won't load 7 shots in my gun because I'm dead if I don't make the first 2 count" even if that holds true most of the time. 2 or 3 rounds in the magazine makes it harder to justify a warning shot. There's also been a few (now confirmed) sightings of grizzly bears on northern Vancouver Island which makes it harder to justify not wanting to take a shotgun while summer scouting.
I'm really not worried about the CO's accusing me of hunting when I'm scouting, I've dealt with them a couple times and they're not "out to get you". They don't even seem anti-gun, their job security revolves around people with guns roaming around in the bush I would think. The last encounter I had with one was pleasant, he actually seemed more interested in helping me find deer than harassing me. Most of the time they're pressing you for information about people dumping drywall and siding. He left me his card and told me to call him if I suspected pyro's or poachers (which I would do in a heartbeat).
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
if youre taking 'warning shots' you could just top off.
i dont block my mag to 2 because i think that all COs are out to get me... but because i know there are many out there that wouldnt hesitate to lay a charge. in Ontario you are better off covering your ass. its also why i do things like putting a trigger lock on my guns when im transporting them, and locking my ammo in toolboxes at home despite the fact that i technically dont need to. cops/COs in Ontario are notoriously heavy-handed in their interpretation of the firearm and hunting regs.
sadly, losing my guns due to our draconic gun laws is a far more realistic fear for me in Ontario than being mauled by a bear
i dont block my mag to 2 because i think that all COs are out to get me... but because i know there are many out there that wouldnt hesitate to lay a charge. in Ontario you are better off covering your ass. its also why i do things like putting a trigger lock on my guns when im transporting them, and locking my ammo in toolboxes at home despite the fact that i technically dont need to. cops/COs in Ontario are notoriously heavy-handed in their interpretation of the firearm and hunting regs.
sadly, losing my guns due to our draconic gun laws is a far more realistic fear for me in Ontario than being mauled by a bear
15 minutes north of your place, I suppose, see, I live in the south, it's 40 minutes away from me . Just like on the bus, eh Richie, always the stupid teenagers you gotta look out for. I've seen bears, fortunately, mostly in summer, and usually full grown ones. Typically, they see me, or smell me, whichever, and just kind of mosy along on their way. They want less to do with me, than I do with them.
BTW, there've been at least 3 unicorn sightings, in those 2 years since, so my statistic stands true.
. Just like on the bus, eh Richie, always the stupid teenagers you gotta look out for. I've seen bears, fortunately, mostly in summer, and usually full grown ones. Typically, they see me, or smell me, whichever, and just kind of mosy along on their way. They want less to do with me, than I do with them.BTW, there've been at least 3 unicorn sightings, in those 2 years since, so my statistic stands true.
I wouldn't bother - what if the gun jams or something? I've read that warning shots get more people into trouble than save trouble.
If a bear's worth the trouble of a warning shot, it's worth the trouble of killing. If it's just wandering around and you want to send it on it's way, put a bean bag in the pipe and keep two slugs in the tube - you still have your two kill shots in case it takes offense
