Winchester 1886 45-70 value/qns
- Thread starter Chemist
- Start date
Hey Road King, I'm not surprised by your above comment. I think most experienced guys keep mum on pricing only to want it for themselves and to flip it for a profit. Well it has been been mine and some of my friends experience out here on the west coast. Anyway you seem like an exception to my assessment about collectors and seem to be a honest and fair and standup gunnutter
BTW please keep posting pictures of your exquisite collection.
I would have to say that Win Shooter's estimate of $7,500 if it is unmessed with is much too high. The case colored receiver has no case color left, and if the lighting is not throwing things off too much, the finish on the metal is turning chocolate brown. The rifle that Meanea posted is a high condition gun. The main thing Chemist's rifle has going for it is the half-octagon barrel, which is shorter than standard. The half mag does not add that much. The condition of Chemist's gun will have a large influence on its value. Assuming it has not been messed with, and assuming the receiver case color has silvered out and the barrel is turning chocolate brown, I would say it is worth $3,000 to $3,900 (although I could be high, as I have a history of paying too much for my '86's .... I should say that I've purchased none from anyone on this forum, in case anyone was wondering). If, however, the barrel and mag tube are still a deep, dark blue with about 80% coverage, then that would definitely up the value. On the other hand, if that barrel has been cut down, then it would certainly be worth significantly less than $3,000 in my opinion. Meanea has pointed out some possible issues with the forend cap, which may be a harbinger of being messed with.
I hear you Brian. I myself have lettered guns for for free for other people.
2 I lettered here http://www.winchestercollector.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3316
a month ago
and another 1 I lettered for a member of this site a year ago.
A rusted gun a bit but a little rare with the rapid taper barrel. I told the guy if he was ever interested in selling let me know. In the end I never got to purchase the gun, but you did. Strange world
Meanea
I must edit my post to be fair to Brian however, I do not think he purchased from the Nutz I lettered it for.
Last edited:
Andrew
I remember that gun, bought it at a gun show here in Ontario without lettering it. I paid his asking price, what more can I say.
RK
Nice find. I really like the looks of half oct rifles. They balance nice with a half mag too.
My first impression too was that the gun should have a round magazine nose cap, but wanted to leave that to someone who has been at it a bit longer. I figured someone would chime in on that. It should also bear in mind, as Kirk has pointed out, that it is still a brown gun and condition is everything.
Good luck with the Cody information. I'm sure someone will step up and help you out. I would offer to email Cody - as I have done for a couple people in the past - but I let my membership go last year. Best of luck.
Cheers,
Matt
My first impression too was that the gun should have a round magazine nose cap, but wanted to leave that to someone who has been at it a bit longer. I figured someone would chime in on that. It should also bear in mind, as Kirk has pointed out, that it is still a brown gun and condition is everything.
Good luck with the Cody information. I'm sure someone will step up and help you out. I would offer to email Cody - as I have done for a couple people in the past - but I let my membership go last year. Best of luck.
Cheers,
Matt
Not to High jack but do you have the prices to Lots
620B
639A
644
650
652 & 653
659
665
671
If you have other prices I'll take whatever you have. Were you the lucky winner on any lots? How many lots did Jeremy get?
PM is okay
Thanks
Meanea
Chemist
Forgot to add but if the gun has been cut by 2" and the mag shortened to 1/2 there should be signs of the dovetail under the barrel at the muzzle where the magazine retaining clip was. Look about 1.5" back and see if any signs show like welding signs or reblueing traces show. If no signs show that is a good sign for you!! If you can pull off the fore end wood look under the wood there and you may see some numbers stamped there.
As for value, more and more it is coming down to condition. A high condition gun is worth more than a silver optioned gun. You will have to look at the condition of yours compared to others to get a true value. In the rarity scale of the 1886's the rarer calibers like the 40-70 and 38-70 and 40-65 do not usually bring a premium over the 45-70 and 45-90.
Good luck
Meanea
Forgot to add but if the gun has been cut by 2" and the mag shortened to 1/2 there should be signs of the dovetail under the barrel at the muzzle where the magazine retaining clip was. Look about 1.5" back and see if any signs show like welding signs or reblueing traces show. If no signs show that is a good sign for you!! If you can pull off the fore end wood look under the wood there and you may see some numbers stamped there.
As for value, more and more it is coming down to condition. A high condition gun is worth more than a silver optioned gun. You will have to look at the condition of yours compared to others to get a true value. In the rarity scale of the 1886's the rarer calibers like the 40-70 and 38-70 and 40-65 do not usually bring a premium over the 45-70 and 45-90.
Good luck
Meanea
Last edited:
Lets hope it wasn't an 28" or longer barrel and got cut, or did the half and half barrels only come in standard length?
The day is wasted if I can't learn something new
My guessimate most likely is out to lunch but pricing out here seems to be out of whack from other parts. The 45-90 with a 28" barrel and set trigger I eventually got was going for over 5K, and with no color/finish left worth mentioning but does have a nice shiny bore. Like most things I guess it's subjective.
The day is wasted if I can't learn something new
My guessimate most likely is out to lunch but pricing out here seems to be out of whack from other parts. The 45-90 with a 28" barrel and set trigger I eventually got was going for over 5K, and with no color/finish left worth mentioning but does have a nice shiny bore. Like most things I guess it's subjective.
Winshooter, I can see 5K for an 86 with a 28 inch original barrel and set triggers, two special order features. A buddy of mine has a .45/90 with a 28 inch extra heavy barrel which is really unusual. The bottom of the octagon barrel has a radius cut in it for the magazine tube. He says Winchester only made 160 odd extra heavy Model 1886 guns. I don't know what the value would be on that.
The letter came today and this gets stranger by the minute. It says it is a 38/56 with an Octagon barrel and a plain trigger.
Well the gun is a 45/70 with a 1/2 and 1/2 barrel. The barrel is stamped 45-70 and has "Manufactured by the Winchester Repeating Arms Co Newhaven Conn USA" stamped on the top.
Do you think someone changed the barrel with a factory one?
Well the gun is a 45/70 with a 1/2 and 1/2 barrel. The barrel is stamped 45-70 and has "Manufactured by the Winchester Repeating Arms Co Newhaven Conn USA" stamped on the top.
Do you think someone changed the barrel with a factory one?
Just what you wanted to hear eh?
When a letter is that off, it pays to - and they suggest this - give them a call at Cody. They will go back and double check the leder for you b/c it is possible that whoever took down your information accidentally wrote down the previous or next entry in the ledger. If you ever see a copy of the ledgers, you will understand why. They are than happy to clarify. Does the letter mention any R& R work? It is possible it went back to the factory and changed. If so, and if done late enough, there would be a double Winchester proof on the barrel, IIRC. Not sure when yours was made but they didn't start marking the barrels / rec'r with the Winchester proof until...and I'm going from memory here...somewhere between 1903 and 1905...wish I had my reference books but I'm out of province visiting family. Someone else hear can likely chime in. First thing I would do is verify the info sent to you.
Matt
Well I guess the wind died in your sail, the air out of your balloon, anyway its a nice looking shooter, too bad, I was rooting for a high value gun for sure. As for value... defiantly not 5k. My guess 1-2k maybe? The winchester gurus could chime in though
That sucks, What has probably happen is your gun is a project/rebuild gun. It only takes 5 minutes to change out the lower tang and swap it into anther gun. The lower tang is not solid to the frame. They will exchange with any standard frame (except pistal grip).
The second oval proof mark Matt is mentioning is IIRC what they call a Winchester postal proof mark.
The second oval proof mark Matt is mentioning is IIRC what they call a Winchester postal proof mark.
Not the news a fellow likes to hear. Been there my friend. Lettered out what I thought to be a standard 86 45-70 with 26" barrel, only to get it lettered to find out it started life as a 30" barreled gun. Sucked.
Anyway, you do have a factory barrel but the mag tube has still been cut back. As Andrew mentioned, it should have a round, slotted nose cap. On the plus side, everyone loves 45-70s and it will still make one hell of a hunting gun. As for value, depends on what somone wants to spend on a shooter. I would guess somewhere on the lower to mid range of the above - noted estimate, but I may be wrong. Because in the $2G range, you can still find an original, standard brown gun in today's market if you're patient. If I were you, I'd keep it and enjoy.
Matt
Anyway, you do have a factory barrel but the mag tube has still been cut back. As Andrew mentioned, it should have a round, slotted nose cap. On the plus side, everyone loves 45-70s and it will still make one hell of a hunting gun. As for value, depends on what somone wants to spend on a shooter. I would guess somewhere on the lower to mid range of the above - noted estimate, but I may be wrong. Because in the $2G range, you can still find an original, standard brown gun in today's market if you're patient. If I were you, I'd keep it and enjoy.
Matt
Last edited:
