Defensive Edge angle/cosine indicator ring caps for nightforce mounts
- Thread starter ceriksson
- Start date
I was warned to stay away from levels that relied on the milling of the receiver. Could be off even a small amount but will show up progressively worse at longer ranges.
Just passing on info that was given to me.
Just passing on info that was given to me.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
A level does not need to be aligned with the receiver, it needs to be aligned with the reticle. Sometimes there are good reasons for aligning the scope so that the crosshair is vertical, but not always and not necessarily.
Does anybody know how much these cost and where I can buy them?
FWIW, I ran a angle/cosine indicator for quite a while, and did not find it a valuable tool. Unless your angles are more than 5-10 degres, the amount of correction is very minimal, even at extreme range, like 1000 yards. The level I did find to be worthwhile, and ran a US Optics folding level that mounted on the base. These are not preceise instruments, unless used from a bench, or extremly secure rest, so the amount of runout on the reciever would be minimal compared to how close one could actually hold the bubble level.
R.
R.
The level in the top picture as posted by the OP, would rely on the milling of the receiver to measure. The second picture as posted by the OP is mounted to the scope only and can be set exactly inline with the bore.
Hirsch carries these, they are the Nightforce ones but are a exact copy, he has them with just the level and with the angle indicator mount. I have the level top half on one of my guns, I had no trouble getting the level to show level with the cross hair being true vertical.
^^^ This.
When I mount some others' guns, I get a serious cast-off canted reticle; likewise, when they mount mine, they get a serious cast-on cant.
However, when I mount MY guns, I get a true vertical reticle and that's what matters.
-M
I don't understand the above. Either your reticule is aligned with bore, or it is not. If this is done properly, and you are seeing a cant, then you are holding the rifle in that cant. I can't imagine any shooter not wanting the bore to be perfectly in line with the reticule, for any reason.
R.
R.
When I'm using a hunting rifle, I mount the reticle such that my natural (gun up, eyes closed, open and look) mount has the reticle perfectly aligned with a vertical level on a distant wall.
Makes for quick shooting, rather than snuggling into a perfect position on the bench.
My longer-range rigs are set up such that my most natural position of address on the stock (read: least fatiguing and most stable position) results in a perfect vertical alignment in a prone or bench position.
I don't have a level on the gun at present, but if I did then I would have to align the reticle with respect to the level for the indicator to mean anything. As I don't, I just set things up for my natural hold. We're not talking 20º here, more like 2-3º maximum.
-M
From what you are describing, you are leveling the reticule to your grip, and not to the bore of the rifle, and you are right, 2-3 degres will make little difference. When I do my rifles, I do not hold the rifle, I put it in a rest on the floor. I then level the bore/action, and lock it into place. Then I mount the scope, and level it as well. This ensures a very close bore/action to reticule alignment, regardless of grip. This means that when an anti cant level is used, it is alingned off of the bore/action, and not just the scope. I do not mount levels on my short range (less than 500 yards) because they really don't mean much at those ranges. The long range rigs have them, and it is just one more variable to eliminate/minimize.
R.
It's a level. If you can't work one, you need help. It is a valuable tool when shooting longer distances to help eliminate cant from your rifle. Being a long range shooter yourself, judging from the rifle you have for sale, I am suprised that you don't know this.
R.
I don't do it my way because I don't KNOW how to do it your way. I do it my way because, done properly, I can close my eyes, mount any of my scoped guns wearing my hunting attire, and open my eyes to a perfectly level reticle without having to shift the gun around. I don't have time to check an anti-cant level when I'm sighting a deer at 300-400yd, or if I'm trying to take a shot at a coyote across a stubblefield.
I also don't shoot for groups at 1,000yds - if I did, my opinion of these things may change.
-M
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I don't do it my way because I don't KNOW how to do it your way. I do it my way because, done properly, I can close my eyes, mount any of my scoped guns wearing my hunting attire, and open my eyes to a perfectly level reticle without having to shift the gun around. I don't have time to check an anti-cant level when I'm sighting a deer at 300-400yd, or if I'm trying to take a shot at a coyote across a stubblefield.
I also don't shoot for groups at 1,000yds - if I did, my opinion of these things may change.
-M
And your system would work if you were shooting a laser directly out of the reticle. But you're not. The bore is some distance below the reticle and (if properly installed) inclined. The bore should be directly below (plumb to) the reticle so that when the bullet leaves the bore it travels straight up and straight down in the same vertical plane as the reticle (assuming zero wind), not starting from the lower left and ending up going high and right and then low and even further right (or vice versa).
If this were the hunting forum and not the precision rifle forum then the readers might be inclined to say "close enough". Unfortunately for those of us interested in precision shooting, close enough really isn't close enough. I want to be able to make an elevation adjustment, say, +29 minutes to get me to 1000 yards and not have to worry about how far to one side or the other will my bullet land because my reticle is canted so many degrees.
With regard to the Defensive Edge ACD, I have the ACI/ACD combo unit. I like it very much. If you level the rifle perfectly then level the reticle (I use a plumb line) and then install the ACI/ACD and torque it to the specs and ensure that the level is, well, level. Add the ACI/ACD instead of just the ACD and you can calculate the actual distance to the target. People might not think that 4% (15 degrees) is a lot, but there is a very significant difference between 960 and 1000 meters. In the end you will have a rifle that shoots properly out to extreme distance and not a half-@ssed "close-enough" wonder.
You're absolutely right - if the RETICLE is canted. If the firearm is canted by just a few degrees, it makes sweet f*ck all of a difference. Reticle cant is a killer for accuracy, at any distance and in any amount. A few degrees of stock cant to allow for a perfectly vertical reticle only displaces the bore axis by millimetres at the point of origin. If my system doesn't work, then tell every target or critter I've hit from the next postal code over that they get a mulligan...
Make no mistake, my reticle is dead vertical/plumb when I take my shots - to not do this would be ridiculous. I just put it on the rifle such that the natural fit brings the reticle to vertical without having to think about it.
Off the bench, it's a whole different story - if you have time to check and recheck the level of your rifle, then it makes TOTAL sense to use everything you can to ensure you're as dialed-in as possible.
-M
