Which WW2 Rifle?

You gotta find yourself a TNW belted gun :D (well not a true milsurp, as the receivers or right side plates are new manufacture). Unlike all the other semi auto's capped to 5 rounds, you may enjoy the pleasures of 50 to a couple hundred round belts :cool:.

The 1919a4 is definitely next on my to-buy list, unless one of those evil black rifles pulls my wallet astray (that SCAR has been taunting me with it's delicious good looks)...
 
"Flinch" can REALLY mess up your shooting pleasure, and for a long time at that.

For many years, I had a terrible and uncontrollable flinch problem which arose when some idiot mashed the button on a Firefly while we were loading 76.2mm rounds into the next tank. Flash from the muzzle-brake actually removed my beret and I was left half-deaf. So were 5 other guys, but it 'never happened'.

Many years later, I reasoned out the sequence of events, realised what the REAL problem was, went out and spent 79 cents on a pair of ear-plugs. A little bit of self-discipline and a shooting buddy who watched very carefully for a couple of afternoons.... and my flinch was gone.

Protect your hearing. It is irreplaceable.

And a 79-cent investment can last a long time and give you a lot of pleasure.

BTW, if you really WANT a flinch, the Russian rifle will be happy to help you. I would save that one for later.

Have fun!
 
Ok so far the 2 most popular ideas seem to be that I should get a .22 first and and THEN the milsurp rifle (overwhelming support for the Enfield). Fair enough.

But what does it cost to shoot .303 british? And what does it cost and require in knowledge/training to make my own ammo?
 
When you buy your first commercial 303 ammo it's going to cost you just over $1 per round. From that you will get your first brass casings and you can eventually get into reloading which will cut the cost by up to half. Not overly complicated, but it is a little costly to get in to.

Your .22 rounds on the other hand will cost you pennies so you can fire away all day!
 
May I suggest obtaining something like a Cooey #75 in good condition, they don't break and they are inexpensive, and you don't need any accessories. .303's are expensive to shoot unless you go all out with reloading. Probably should get something that has reasonable ammunition. Welcome to our community! :)
 
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#1 - unless you're already a very experienced shooter, buy a .22 first. They're cheap, ammo is cheap, and they will teach you more about shooting than you can imagine. You really don't even begin to appreciate them until you've owned a bunch of rifles and realise you still like shooting the .22 regardless :p


#2 - if you do not have a preference for any particular gun or side already, buy an enfield. No1 Mk3 was used in both WW1 and WW2. The No4 Mk1 and Mk2's were just WW2. Both use .303 ammo, are very very very common and accurate when in good condition. Prices for full wood original condition range from $200-$500.

#3 - most of the guns from the period have similar cartridges, performance, similarities and drawbacks. I've found swedish M96's and M38's (carbine) to be very good guns generally with nice triggers and an accurate and less kicking cartridge. K31's are good as well, but you basically have to reload for them. For a beater gun, mosin nagants will take anything you can do to them and come back for more. They're cheap, but ammo may not be depending on where you are.

#4 - there is no surplus available for any milsurps any more. You may find some, but generally it is overpriced, corrosive and not a reliable source. Cheapest way to shoot is to reload. Buy commercial, save your brass and one day bask in the glory that is super cheap shooting.
 
H Wally said pretty much what had to be said.

Handloading can cost you a fortune if you go the Cadillac route. Some of us prefer the Model T route, which is not necessarily bad.
My reloading press is a cast-aluminum one (black) from C-H. If you tell people that you have an alkuminum C-H press and that it is black, they will call you a liar because everybody knows that C-H uses RED. I bought it, new, in 1965 and it still works. Lee has an aluminum press right now that is about 35 bucks. Add 30 more for a set of dies for your milsurp, or 40 if it's one of the strange ones. Lee has dies for the common ones (6.5x55, .303, .308, .39-'06 and a couple more) starting at 20 bucks WITH a shellholder that the otyher guys charge you 8 bucks for. They aren't pretty but they WORK. Loading blocks are worth maybe $8 and that sets you up to do 100 rounds at a crack.
One thing that you absolutely NEED is a scale which is accurate enough to do the job. There are several on the market, ranging from $250 down to about $25. I am using an RCBS 5-0-5 which is made by the same guys (Ohaus) who make lab balances.... but you don;t need that. You can get away with a little Lee for a quarter of the money. The Lee operates a bit differently from most scales, but it makes sense when you get used to it. It is sensitive enough to show the difference between a sheet of fresh notepaper and the same one after you have put WRITING on it. I think that's sensitive enough.
And you can really speed things up with a powder measure; they are anywhere from about 30 bucks, up.

After that, primers are worth about $3.50 a hundred, bullets run about $28 - $38 a hundred and a pound of powder (from which you will get 150 to 200 shots) is about $30.

But that's for shooting jacketed bullets. If price REALLY concerns you, you can cast your own slugs from wheelweights, use the same equipment and primers, use a different powder and get some gas checks ($32 a thousand). You need a mould ($30) for your rifle, a gas-check seater/bullet sizer and lube ($24 for the set). You can actually shoot a .303, once you know what you're doing (lotsa guys here will help) for two bits a shot, which is a fifth of the price of factory ammo, a FIFTEENTH of the price of fresh Swedish ammo for some rifles. And if you get deeper into it, you can add more calibres.

Shells for my Martini-Henry cost $10 apiece to buy.... if you can find them. I load my own for a quarter. Same with .43 Mauser. Shells are worth $4 a pop these days.... but they cost about 20 cents to reload...... anbd you can have a LOT of fun with an 1870s .43 Mauser that was new when the Kaiser was a pup and Prince Bismarck was running Europe.

Not just that, but you will learn techniques that make your rifle shoot like an AI, just so long as you are using your roll-your-owns.

It's worth investigating.

Have fun!
 
Well thank you for the welcome and further information.

Some .22s have already been suggested, but overall what are some of the better ones and what are some of the ones to avoid?

I live in the Kitchener-Waterloo area in Ontario, and the 2 stores I know of is Shooter's Choice and The Gun Centre (this one is very close to home), but I'll keep my eye out for suggested models.
 
As to a .22, several already have been suggested. Here, again, you can go the Cadillac route or the Model T route.

You can get a very nice Czech CZ and put a scope on it and have fun. Cost will run close to 600 bucks by the time you are finished.
OR
You can get an older Canadian-made Cooey, starting around $60, and have fun with that. The Cooey is a perfect rifle for beginners, as it has a built-in safety mechanism that requires you to #### the rifle manually for every shot. It's a nuisance... but it is very safe to use, if a bit slow. Thing about these old Cooeys is that they are at their most accurate when using Standard-velocity .22 shells. They had shallow rifling and if you use the real high-velocity ammo. it tends to strip in the bore and shoot much wider groups. Stay with the lower-velocity stuff..... or even buy a brick of Remington Subsonic.... and an old Cooey will stay up with the best of them.

My own .22 is a 1944 Long Branch, very minty, which I am told is 'worth' a thousand bucks. It's fun. My shooting buddy has a couple of J.G. Anschutz .22s, made in Germany, start at about 400 and then he puts some very sincere glass onto them. And he has a CZ. These cost less, altogether, than what my Long Branch is said to be worth. And I still have my Dad's Winchester 69A with the aperture sight, a 1936 model which still hasn't fired its thousandth round. It's nice, too.

The ones to stay away from are some of the Asian-made .22 semi-autos: bad metal, poor hardening and tempering, you can't get parts when you need them and you WILL need parts.
Pretty much ANY of the American-made ones are good, some are truly excellent. Like a real good semi? Ruger 10/22. Like an inexpensive bolt? Savage.

There is something out there for everyone, at every price. What we have to do is figure out what we want to do, what will do the job, and then find that item at a price we can afford.

In the medical profession, they call it 'triage'. Think of it as 'wallet triage' and you're pretty close.

You CAN spend a fortune.... but you don't HAVE TO.

Have fun.
 
Smellie is on the dot. My addition is that there are a LOT of great oldish .22's around. You can find them on the EE - I've bought target .22's ranging from $100-$400 depending on how much of a deal I was getting. If the gun looks like it was treated well and you can see the quality (dark glass smooth bluing, no machine marks, well fitted stock) generally you're off to a good start. As about or check the gun for external flaws as well as any bore problems, signs of wear, loose or missing parts etc. Condition is a definite factor with any second hand gun, but I've had good experience with anschutz and gevarm. Cooeys are the Enfield of the .22 world. Basic, solid, simple as can be.
 
Oops, I did forget to mention my preference for rifles: bolt action!

I think I may look into savages more, as what I am looking for is a .22 that is just a plain good solid gun, nothing fancy. Those kinds of guns that you will always keep in your vault an bring it out once in a while even though you have bigger and better toys, just because it is so simple and fun to use.

I really don`t want to drop big bucks on a bolt action .22, I just want a solid, reliable bolt action .22 that shoots well enough.

As for tbrwlf's comment, what does CT stand for? Your info is actually quite enlightening, because ultiamtely I want a garand and one of the bolt action rifles. I am sure an experienced user would recognize the difference between the differrent WW2 bolt actions, but I don't think the differences would warrant having all of the different ones.
 
For a bolt action .22 look at the Savage MarkII FVT. You cant go wrong with those excellent peep sights.

CT= Canadian Tire;)
 
MattG666 said:
Oops, I did forget to mention my preference for rifles: bolt action!

I think I may look into savages more, as what I am looking for is a .22 that is just a plain good solid gun, nothing fancy. Those kinds of guns that you will always keep in your vault an bring it out once in a while even though you have bigger and better toys, just because it is so simple and fun to use.

I really don`t want to drop big bucks on a bolt action .22, I just want a solid, reliable bolt action .22 that shoots well enough.
Click to expand...
What do you consider big bucks?
 
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