Best buy in Milsurp???
- Thread starter Papaclaude
- Start date
, buying french Milsurp poses a very basic question: how do you intend to feed them rifles? 
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Beater sporterized Enfields with good bores are inexpensive rifles. Coupled with Mastar's impending shipment of never-issued wood, you'd have an almost-as-issued LE with some sweat equity invested.
And hey - let's please move past slandering the French military. It wasn't that funny 9 years ago, there's no need for it, and after what they endured in WW1, it's historically inaccuate as well.
And hey - let's please move past slandering the French military. It wasn't that funny 9 years ago, there's no need for it, and after what they endured in WW1, it's historically inaccuate as well.
Slandering
FYI - I am 75% French descent, 25% Scot. My paternal family were among the first in Canada, coming here in the 1600's. Let's look at French military history in the last century or two (or three or 4) say, starting with the Plains of Abraham - one of the most easily defensible areas on earth, lost to numerically inferior enemies who were more poorly armed, poorly supplied and unfamiliar with the terrain. The Napoleonic wars, World War I, World War II, when DeGaulle so bravely fled France, forced a true hero (Petain) out of retirement to salvage what he could of the country, then had him tried for collaboration and treason?, Algeria, VietNam (and the rest of French Indo-China). Won't even talk of their work in Africa.
Now, let's look at Canada: 1812 - ass-kicking the Yanks; WWI - severe asskicking for the kaiser from a young, unprepared country, WWII - major whoop-ass to dear old Adolf by a young country that went from a non-power to the 4th of 5th world power, Korea, where we almost single-handedly saved Korea, Afghanistan, where we continue to kick ass. All of these have made Canada one of the most feared armies in the world. Do I have a right to gloat - DAMN RIGHT!
FYI - I am 75% French descent, 25% Scot. My paternal family were among the first in Canada, coming here in the 1600's. Let's look at French military history in the last century or two (or three or 4) say, starting with the Plains of Abraham - one of the most easily defensible areas on earth, lost to numerically inferior enemies who were more poorly armed, poorly supplied and unfamiliar with the terrain. The Napoleonic wars, World War I, World War II, when DeGaulle so bravely fled France, forced a true hero (Petain) out of retirement to salvage what he could of the country, then had him tried for collaboration and treason?, Algeria, VietNam (and the rest of French Indo-China). Won't even talk of their work in Africa.
Now, let's look at Canada: 1812 - ass-kicking the Yanks; WWI - severe asskicking for the kaiser from a young, unprepared country, WWII - major whoop-ass to dear old Adolf by a young country that went from a non-power to the 4th of 5th world power, Korea, where we almost single-handedly saved Korea, Afghanistan, where we continue to kick ass. All of these have made Canada one of the most feared armies in the world. Do I have a right to gloat - DAMN RIGHT!
-Plains of Abraham: poorly equipped militia vs the British army after months of siege.
-Napoleonic wars saw France conquer most of Europe. Only when everyone ganged against France did Napoleon lose. And they had to do it twice.
-World War I: France didn't surrender during that one. They actually won territory back. The US didn't 'save it's ass' (as in '...saved their ass twice in the last century...' no, just once.)
WWII and the colonial wars were quite pathetic, you are right on those, but I suggest you brush up on your history of older events.
They had to do it more then twice. Hence The War of the Seventh Coalition.
This thread
I'm really sorry I started this whole thread. It was meant to add a little levity. I did not expect it to take this turn (I thought this type of thing only happened here in Ottawa). I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I guess my own ancestors included.
I'm really sorry I started this whole thread. It was meant to add a little levity. I did not expect it to take this turn (I thought this type of thing only happened here in Ottawa). I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I guess my own ancestors included.
Well Mr papaclaude you are in dire need of some history lessons, both about the French Army and the Canadian Army.
I served in the Cdn Army for 32 yrs and am very proud of our military achievements and the valor and efficiency of our soldiers. I also know our limitations. Canada was a supporting player in all of WW1, WW2, Korea, and Afghanistan. The majority of the fighting and dying, and the most decisive battles which determined the outcome in these conflicts, was done by others. And no, neither the Kaiser nor Adolph Hitler was hiding under the bed or crapping their drawers at the mention of " Johnny Canuck". In fact, the Cdn Army was the recipient of some serious $hit-kickings in WW2 until we settled down and got fully into the game in a professional way-Hong Kong, Dieppe, and a number of very bloody noses in Normandy come readily to mind.
I've been to the French WW1 battlefields at Verdun at marvelled at the scale of the battles and the losses which make Vimy Ridge seem rather small in comparison. Apart from pi$$-poor political and military leadership, the French performance on the battlefields in Indo-China was impressive. The Legionnaires at Dien -ben-phu remained combat effective after sustaining casualty rates which would have broken most other armies. I've also had contacts with the modern French Army and found them to be highly motivated and professional-a good group to have beside you when things come unstuck.
I served in the Cdn Army for 32 yrs and am very proud of our military achievements and the valor and efficiency of our soldiers. I also know our limitations. Canada was a supporting player in all of WW1, WW2, Korea, and Afghanistan. The majority of the fighting and dying, and the most decisive battles which determined the outcome in these conflicts, was done by others. And no, neither the Kaiser nor Adolph Hitler was hiding under the bed or crapping their drawers at the mention of " Johnny Canuck". In fact, the Cdn Army was the recipient of some serious $hit-kickings in WW2 until we settled down and got fully into the game in a professional way-Hong Kong, Dieppe, and a number of very bloody noses in Normandy come readily to mind.
I've been to the French WW1 battlefields at Verdun at marvelled at the scale of the battles and the losses which make Vimy Ridge seem rather small in comparison. Apart from pi$$-poor political and military leadership, the French performance on the battlefields in Indo-China was impressive. The Legionnaires at Dien -ben-phu remained combat effective after sustaining casualty rates which would have broken most other armies. I've also had contacts with the modern French Army and found them to be highly motivated and professional-a good group to have beside you when things come unstuck.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Well the idea of putting an outpost in Dien Bein Phu was the fault of the french leadership. And one must admit the Legion Entragere is the best fighting unit the french have , but only the officers are French.
Verdun? only when they put Petain in charge and got rid of Mangin and his "eminence gris"
Napoleon? a french/corsican version of hitler.
Verdun? only when they put Petain in charge and got rid of Mangin and his "eminence gris"
Napoleon? a french/corsican version of hitler.
So, back to the OP's question: What's the best buy in milsurps? I have to admit, my free Enfield is great, but my research seems to lead me to think that the best Enfields are the Number 4's with their integrated trigger/receiver. (I will probably be corrected here). But at what cost? Trawling the web for info, I've found a website dedicated to milsurp rifles and they seem to like their Mosin's as best value. Thoughts anyone?
Lee Enfield vs. Nagant
In NE Ontario-NW Quebec, Lee Enfields have killed more critters than all guns combined, I think, and many of them were horribly treated. I've also seen about 20 moose shot with Nagant's, and they were dead as stone too. So for hunting, I don't know. Ammo for the Nagants seems to be a little easier to get than .303 lately.
Never had the pleasure of owning a L-E Jungle Carbine, but I had a lovely little Polish Nagant carbine. Loved it, even if it was a little heavy.
In NE Ontario-NW Quebec, Lee Enfields have killed more critters than all guns combined, I think, and many of them were horribly treated. I've also seen about 20 moose shot with Nagant's, and they were dead as stone too. So for hunting, I don't know. Ammo for the Nagants seems to be a little easier to get than .303 lately.
Never had the pleasure of owning a L-E Jungle Carbine, but I had a lovely little Polish Nagant carbine. Loved it, even if it was a little heavy.
Interesting. What cartridge does the nagant use? I am starting to reload for the 303, so I will no longer be at the mercy of the shops for 303 ammo!
Nagant ammo
The Mosin-Nagant uses 7.62X54 R. ballistically, I think it's in the same league as the 303, 30-06, 308, etc. At one time, it was darned near raining 303 ammo. Now, even though I don't really go looking for it, I don't seem to see much on shells. When I first saw nagants in Canada about 25-30 years ago,soft point ammo was fairly easy to get, then when the Yugoslav civil war broke out, it was darned near impossible to get, only the odd box of Lapua, if I remember, and that went for roughly the same price as a pound of testicles. Now, there seems to be a lot of it around again. I'm kind of a fan of ComBloc rifles, so I guess my druthers would go to the nagant, but the LE is definitely one of the best in the world.
The Mosin-Nagant uses 7.62X54 R. ballistically, I think it's in the same league as the 303, 30-06, 308, etc. At one time, it was darned near raining 303 ammo. Now, even though I don't really go looking for it, I don't seem to see much on shells. When I first saw nagants in Canada about 25-30 years ago,soft point ammo was fairly easy to get, then when the Yugoslav civil war broke out, it was darned near impossible to get, only the odd box of Lapua, if I remember, and that went for roughly the same price as a pound of testicles. Now, there seems to be a lot of it around again. I'm kind of a fan of ComBloc rifles, so I guess my druthers would go to the nagant, but the LE is definitely one of the best in the world.
