Bringing back Ammo from the US

[heavyBullet]

Every time I have read the Canadian reg's on bringing back ammo from the U.S, right after they mention the quantity you are allowed to bring back, they also mention an import permit may be required in order to comply with the laws of the exporting country.

 

[coldfire]

ok so look at it like this, check with the state your dealing with then while there get yourself a hunting permit from the state then you are legal to purchase ammo and be in possesion of it in that state, when you leave that state and come back to Canada to are allowed to bring that ammo back. i have hunted and taken two courses in the US gone through all the freakin hoops to bring in 2 rifles and 1 pistol in with me then using my licence purchased ammo for the courses legally, then returned home to Canada with the ammo that was left over and that my friends is legal!!! buying ammo with no licence in the US is illegal, with no hunting licence it is also illegal to bring it back, or be in possesion of it, on the US side.

know let the discrediting begin and tell me i'm a criminal!

 

[ki11ercane]

Killer...you've gone off on a tangent. I'm behind you 100% about buying Cdn and doing things the legal way...in no way have I condoned the bringing back of ammo from the US...but you have to see that what you're saying is something new (and I'm only talking about the part about being turned back for a permit that you can't get)...rather than arguing about it let us see one of those memos you speak of (or point us to a URL that contains the info). I just got off the phone with CBSA and the guy I spoke with rattled off the same spiel about 5000 rounds that we all know we legally can't do (and no reference to DFAIT)...as they said on the XFiles..."I want to believe" (but just can't seem to find anything that you might be privy to as a dealer)

Brodo, this conversation comes up on CGN about as many times as "can you buy an SKS bullpup in Canada." I have posted links to the BATF and State Department PDF files indicating the law. They are available free for dload or viewing online anytime.

 

[ki11ercane]

ok so look at it like this, check with the state your dealing with then while there get yourself a hunting permit from the state then you are legal to purchase ammo and be in possesion of it in that state, when you leave that state and come back to Canada to are allowed to bring that ammo back. i have hunted and taken two courses in the US gone through all the freakin hoops to bring in 2 rifles and 1 pistol in with me then using my licence purchased ammo for the courses legally, then returned home to Canada with the ammo that was left over and that my friends is legal!!! buying ammo with no licence in the US is illegal, with no hunting licence it is also illegal to bring it back, or be in possesion of it, on the US side.

know let the discrediting begin and tell me i'm a criminal!

That loophole was closed January 1/2010. "Hunters" were buying 1000 rounds in the U.S., throwing one round out, then trying to import 999 rounds into Canada. The BATF ended that.

Your hunting license in the U.S. permits you to possess ammo in the U.S. while in whatever state your permit is listed in, that's it. In North Dakota, it is illegal to possess ammunition unless you own a firearm, or have a hunting license. Since it's illegal for a non-resident to "own" a firearm, if you as a non-resident were in possession of your recently purchased ammunition without a hunting license, you can be arrested in North Dakota for that. Your only other exemption to that rule is if you have permission from the BATF to have your firearms with you while in the U.S. (ie. CCW or simple possession which any Canadian can get)

 

[Brordo]

For the first time, in this thread, it is reported that a returning Canadian citizen, arriving at the border with controlled goods being illegally exported from the US could be turned back, and forced to deal with the US authorities.
I have no reason to doubt ki11ercane's report. There is no reason for Canadian authorities to facilitate smuggling out of the US. US and Cdn law enforcement agencies do work together, and ITAR is international. Cdn. authorities have expressed concern about the smuggling of arms across the border. The Cdn. Gov't has been pressuring the US Gov't to stop illegal exports.
It may be that this is now happening.
Until this situation is clarified, anyone planning of doing any crossborder shopping had better stop and think.

Thank you...that sums it up nicely. Tiriaq, you've put into words what I've been unable to convey since my initial post...I apologise if I've raised the ire of some but ultimately I just wish to be well informed on the subject. Lord knows the rules can change in an instanct. So with that in mind I'll bow to the wisdom of all those who've been around much longer than I

 

[Tuco Pike]

Has it already been said? If you cross the border from Canada to the USA with 2000 rounds all legal like, you have to be able to bring the unused portion back, even if it is the entire 2000 rounds no? Since you are at a match in the USA you would be legally allowed to buy ammunition in the USA for that match, so you just decided to use that ammo for the match and bring back what you brought. Right?

 

[Shrapnel]

If you bring 2000 rounds of ammo into the US, than you can come out with 2000 rounds maximum. What is the point then?

 

[Doug The Canuck]

That loophole was closed January 1/2010. "Hunters" were buying 1000 rounds in the U.S., throwing one round out, then trying to import 999 rounds into Canada. The BATF ended that.

Your hunting license in the U.S. permits you to possess ammo in the U.S. while in whatever state your permit is listed in, that's it. In North Dakota, it is illegal to possess ammunition unless you own a firearm, or have a hunting license. Since it's illegal for a non-resident to "own" a firearm, if you as a non-resident were in possession of your recently purchased ammunition without a hunting license, you can be arrested in North Dakota for that. Your only other exemption to that rule is if you have permission from the BATF to have your firearms with you while in the U.S. (ie. CCW or simple possession which any Canadian can get)

Actually, to get a firearm into the US, you need a Form 6 issued by BATF plus either a shoot invitation or a stateside hunting licence. If you bring ammo with you, you MUST take all that you don't use back to Canada with you. You may not leave it in the US. Likewise, if you buy ammo in the US, you may not take it back with you.

Last year, I flew to the NSCA Nationals in San Antonio. I was able to purchase ammo there, but any that I had left over, I gave to my US squad mates. I couldn't bring it home.

 

[blargon]

US laws. I'm Canadian. You are breaking US laws on Canadian soil the way I see it.

Wrong. You are breaking US laws the minute you take possession of ammo while in the US. You are not allowed to buy it, or have it in your possession.

The ONLY exception is if you have a valid US hunting license or sporting event registration, and even then you have to leave any ammo not used, in the US. You cannot bring it back without export permits, period.

Purchasing ammunition from a Federal
Firearms Licensee (FFL) or a nonlicensee
to possess in the United States

A nonimmigrant alien (ie: Canadian) generally MAY NOT purchase
ammunition from an FFL or a nonlicensee to
possess in the United States. If you violate this
prohibition, you could receive a maximum of 10
years of imprisonment.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-18.pdf

 

[CeeZer]

If you bring 2000 rounds of ammo into the US, than you can come out with 2000 rounds maximum. What is the point then?

He's saying that if he's going to a match and is bringing in 2K rounds, he can legally buy say 500rds and use that ammo for the match and bring his own original ammo back.

One HAS to use all purchased in US ammo before they return to Canada, as it's outlined in the US laws.

 

[Shrapnel]

Point is: no US export permit, no ammo out of the US without potential troubles...

 

[esquif]

getting ammo from the US is like speeding on the highway. the fact that everyone dose it dose not make it more legal

 

[bubba2u]

Deleted do to General CGN rules

 

[Doug The Canuck]

I fail to understand why the US is cracking down or even concerned about ammo leaving there country that is completely legal to own, buy in Canada...If you can buy it in both countries you should be able to bring it back and forth in the spirit of NAFTA. Don't get me wrong I'm talking about between Canada and the US not 3rd world power struggling country's.

Don't try to apply logic to this. It's all about 9/11 and the fallout of that. The form 6 thing is also part of the homeland security stuff.

Nothing makes sense. It just is.

 

[bubba2u]

Just read the general rules and discussion about bringing "stuff" in from the US is not allowed on CGN so I'm editing my comments to take them out in respect for the rules..

 

[ki11ercane]

Don't try to apply logic to this. It's all about 9/11 and the fallout of that. The form 6 thing is also part of the homeland security stuff.

Nothing makes sense. It just is.

Right now the CBSA is on a "blitz." That's what I was told last week. I had ALL my my imports in 2 consecutive days held up. That's NEVER happened in the 12 years I have been importing.

 

[contact148]

Right now the CBSA is on a "blitz." That's what I was told last week. I had ALL my my imports in 2 consecutive days held up. That's NEVER happened in the 12 years I have been importing.

Iv noticed alot more delays myself, my stuff take up to 3 weeks to clear customs for the past 1.5 months

NOT gun stuff either auto parts..oil and fuel filters brake parts ect none ever opened billed tax and sent on its way

 

[cybershooters]

They will turn you around back to the U.S. to get your paperwork to import.

Not what I've seen at the border. For no apparent reason I got pulled into secondary at Coutts last October and while they were searching my car looking for whatever it was they thought I had (which I didn't) another guy showed up who was importing 5,000 rounds. They did not check for a DSP-5, they did not send him to the CBP office.

The way to do this legally is to get a DSP-5, e.g. from Leroy's Big Valley Gun Works (if you live out west). Unlike guns it's perfectly okay if you have a hunting licence issued by any US State (and are the correct age, etc.) to purchase the ammo and bring back up to 5,000 rounds, but you can't cross the border with it without the DSP-5. Or you need a Commerce Dept. licence if it's shotgun ammo.

Bear in mind you don't just need the license, you have to declare it to CBP at the POE when you leave and they have to see it.

However from what I've seen of the price of ammo in Montana I cannot see the point, honestly. Bear in mind ammo in Canada can actually be cheaper as there is a Federal Excise Tax on ammo in the US, common types of ammo imported by the official importer can work out cheaper here imx.

 

[Swampy]

"If you're concerned over the validity of the situation, call the CBSA. Ask them for the department that handles ITAR. Tell them EXACTLY what we're talking about here. When you get your answer, come back to this forum and post your findings. Make them put it in writing so you can take it to the border with you when you go.

John and I are dealers. We know the law. John has been doing this for 37 years and I have been doing it for about one. I travel from the border ALL THE TIME with imports for my three companies. I know the law. I have seen the rulings. I see the memos. I am in constant communication with the CBSA DAILY on importations. I talk to the agents. I am on the front line on this issue. You are not. If you want to prove us wrong, go buy some ammo. Go the the border, declare it. Tell them you want documentation on the legalities of importing ammo without a permit under ITAR. Again, report back your findings. The CBSA will turn you back to the U.S. They will make you make you get permits (that you cannot get). You will at the least lose your ammunition when you can't get the documentation when you return back to Canada empty handed.

Solution - buy Canadian. Stop proving to the dealers here in Canada a non-desire to support Canadian dealers. If people wonder why dealers won't lower prices or be more aggressive with their business to customers, this pretty much hammers the point home to them/us. Why support an industry and scene that constantly announces that it wants to buy the same product that's right here in Canada somewhere else?

I cannot wrap my head around how people want to do through so much hassle and debate over an issue that saves them a couple of pennies per round and can land them in so much trouble with the off chance of going to jail and losing the firearms they so much don't want their own government to confiscate.

Epic. "


This is probably the best post I have seen on this topic in a few years. Pretty much sums it all up.

Support Canadian Dealers and buy Canadian. If you want to roll the dice and possibly face huge consequences south of the 49th, go for it. Want to save money on ammo costs? Invest in a reloader and start re-loading.

 

[CRP_4321]

After thought: To original poster, I just quoted Swampy quoting.

"
Solution - buy Canadian. Stop proving to the dealers here in Canada a non-desire to support Canadian dealers. If people wonder why dealers won't lower prices or be more aggressive with their business to customers, this pretty much hammers the point home to them/us. Why support an industry and scene that constantly announces that it wants to buy the same product that's right here in Canada somewhere else?

You realize WE are buying and YOU are selling right?

Your potential customers are showing you that they will go elsewhere if you are not aggressive and lower prices. Ranting to people who actually buy guns and ammo about your dislike of them finding the best deals for themselves and your lack of desire to support them isn't a good business strategy.