Mannlicher-Schönauer M1903 Carbine Goodness

Slimbo said:
Like boomer said, it is a "proper HUNTING rifle" Don't keep that baby tucked away in the safe, use it for what it was MADE for...hunting!! (although take damn good care of it during!).
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I know, I know... :redface:

I am definitely asking for it posting here and suggesting I probably won't use it. Fact is though that I have a few good hunting rifles that cost me MUCH less and are OK to beat-up a little. I'm more likely to throw my old Browning pre-'81 BLR (.358WIN) on a sling and hit the bush with that... I searched for a _long_ time to find a M1903 Carbine in this kind of condition, I couldn't forgive myself if I dinged it up. Egads... what if it rained?!? :eek:

From a hunter's standpoint I don't deserve this rifle, but from a collector's viewpoint I will be a worthy custodian.

(If I was back living in the Kootenays again though, I probably couldn't resist - I know where you're coming from!)
 
Just thought I might mention that this brass is AWFULLY close to Carcano brass and, in fact, a lot of 6.5x54 (also called 6.5x53MS) brass went to make up SKS brass during the VN War, as did nearly ALL of the Western Carcano brass.

Now, of course, brass for the SKS is in production EVERYWHERE and your MS, my Carcs, all are weeping for want of a decent feed.

However, there IS hope. Tradex (tan link at top of page) has Carcano brass in stock right now. You can make MS brass out of Carc brass by loading with a light load, then cycle carefully (extractor must hold case) and fire-forming it that way. Only REAL difference is about 1 mm of case length; shoulders are ALMOST identical!

Why two cartridges so similar? A proper Greek couldn't POSSIBLY use an Italian cartridge.... but they liked the performance... so they lengthened the neck just a tad... and had a GREEK cartridge.

For reasons of national pride, it was very important prior to the Great War for every country which had any pretensions at all toward international dignity, to have their own rifle and their own ammunition. Even countries which adopted identical rifles (see the enormous variety of Mausers) had their own crest on the things... and their own "special" ammunition. The variety of national loadings for the 7x57, as the best example, are astounding.... but the rifles, under the crests, were identical.

But you CAN make MS brass if you really want to.
 
^^^
Very interesting, thanks! This will go in my lengthening list of tips for reloading the 6.5x54mm for my M-S. I have decided I'm gonna' get a lesser (condition) M1903 for shooting, I will certainly take all the valuable advice into account when that time comes.
Cheers
 
Hey!! If you don't hunt with it you'll be sorry. I had 4 Mannlichers 1964(30-06) 1905(9.5x57) and two 1903s The brass is not difficult to come by and most of the reloading mauals list it.
It is an incredible cartrige far far superior in performance than it seems.
I hunted with my 1903s for 10 years,Moose deer,and even coyotes here at the farm.

If you look up "SLICK ACTIONS" in wikepedia you shoul see a M-S!!!!

As so many of my firearms they slipped through my hands over the years and I miss them.

Hunt with it at least once and then hang her up!

All the best Jim.
 
Bare said:
Man this is a beautiful rifle. A friend of mine has one and it is mint. he still hunts with it and now we will start to reload for it.
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Thanks! Is you friend's a M1903? If so, let me know how your 6.5x54mm loads work out... I may end up shooting this one or, failing that, getting a 'user' to play/ hunt with.
Cheers
 
I've never been able to afford an MS, so I try to make up with a closetfull of MCs (Carcanos).

The cartridges are so close to identical that it's not even funny. Performance with the 160-grain slug is well under 100 ft/sec different, yet the mighty Mannlicher-Schoenauer is lauded and it is repeatedly pointed out that it has taken efelumps..... but everybody knows that the lousy old Carcano POS used a weak, underpowered cartridge with a bullet that was far too heavy for such an anemic round.

It would be really nice if we all were able to stop the World War Two propaganda machine for a while. We ALL might appreciate some of the truly wonderful old rifles which surround us, even the Carcanos: they do have a lot of good points....... even if they are nowhere nearly as pretty and slick as this baby!
 
I had 2 of those 1903's.
One is a full stocked rifle, which makes it very rare.
Great score, they really don't make them like this anymore.
It would be too costly.
 
smellie said:
I've never been able to afford an MS, so I try to make up with a closetfull of MCs (Carcanos).

The cartridges are so close to identical that it's not even funny. Performance with the 160-grain slug is well under 100 ft/sec different, yet the mighty Mannlicher-Schoenauer is lauded and it is repeatedly pointed out that it has taken efelumps..... but everybody knows that the lousy old Carcano POS used a weak, underpowered cartridge with a bullet that was far too heavy for such an anemic round.

It would be really nice if we all were able to stop the World War Two propaganda machine for a while. We ALL might appreciate some of the truly wonderful old rifles which surround us, even the Carcanos: they do have a lot of good points....... even if they are nowhere nearly as pretty and slick as this baby!
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OK, thanks for the comments. I am not personally familiar with the "WW2 propaganda machine" in the context you mention, but I'll take your word for it. Not sure what else to say, so good luck with your issues!
Cheers
Conan_568 said:
I had 2 of those 1903's.
One is a full stocked rifle, which makes it very rare.
Great score, they really don't make them like this anymore.
It would be too costly.
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Full stock M-S rifle is a gem for sure. No they certainly don't make them like this these days, not even close. It was a great score indeed, cost me lots though for import fees, taxes etc. but was worth it. Out of curiosity, do you still collect M-S? (I touched base with you in the past about that) I've probably seen you at Grandlunds down Dogwood...
Cheers
 
Congrats on becoming a member of an very exclusive club! I have never seen such a nice scope/mount system , alot of thought was taken in making yours up! Your 1903 is about 5000 ahead of mine and pretty much a replica except mine wears a Lyman model 36 peep sight wich makes it a delight to carry and shoot. I found old Domimion ammo works very well in mine, but I still hand load Norma cases with 160 grain Hornady round noses and they hit the same place as the factory Dominion cartridges (amazing) If you don't take the MS 6.5 out to hunt you have no idea what your missing. I know there not cheap but you never will lose on this investment as it is a hand built classic. Did you get a 3 piece cleaning rod in the but? if so a few pictures would be great. A friend of mine has one in the 1200 serial number that is just amazing in fit and finish and I know he will never sell it, its that important to any of us who hunt and collect Man Shoueners. Some detailed pictures of the scope and mount would be great if you have the time, great find and good luck in your hunts with this classic, take care dale in T-Bay
 
zywina said:
Congrats on becoming a member of an very exclusive club! I have never seen such a nice scope/mount system , alot of thought was taken in making yours up! Your 1903 is about 5000 ahead of mine and pretty much a replica except mine wears a Lyman model 36 peep sight wich makes it a delight to carry and shoot. I found old Domimion ammo works very well in mine, but I still hand load Norma cases with 160 grain Hornady round noses and they hit the same place as the factory Dominion cartridges (amazing) If you don't take the MS 6.5 out to hunt you have no idea what your missing. I know there not cheap but you never will lose on this investment as it is a hand built classic. Did you get a 3 piece cleaning rod in the but? if so a few pictures would be great. A friend of mine has one in the 1200 serial number that is just amazing in fit and finish and I know he will never sell it, its that important to any of us who hunt and collect Man Shoueners. Some detailed pictures of the scope and mount would be great if you have the time, great find and good luck in your hunts with this classic, take care dale in T-Bay
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Thanks for the compliments M-S brother! I had my application in for membership for a long time. :p

I will snap some photos of the scope and mount later today... it is indeed an elegant solution. For the record it was a (rare) factory option, not an after-market or custom setup. The design blends perfectly with the lines of the cabine, I really think it looks at home.

Alas no, the cleaning rod was missing. I will have my eyes peeled for one but am not too broken up over it.

I also prefer peep sights but will obviously leave this model in factory original condition. At least it has a flip-up leaf for 300M, but still not as good as a peep for sure...

Probably I will get a somewhat lesser model to hunt with, it'll cost a few K though. That way I can have the experience of using the grand little carbine, but not worry about beating-up on this top condition example.

I would love to see your friend's 12xx serial model, I bet it is fantastic! Mine will be tough to upgrade but that would be on the list; a lower serial number and the cleaning rod. Needless to say I'm happy for the time being... :p:D
 
An interesting point is that the 1903 was made as a commercial rifle (wonderful example here) AND as a military rifle: full wood, straight bolt-handle with big hollow knob, military sights and even a Carbine version.

A bunch were released on the surplus market after WW2 and most got the tender attentions of Bubba and his illiterate cousin, making even original military ones very collectible. The commercials, of course, were always rare and high priced, but they shared a common action with the military rifle.

Thing is, the numbers released in the '50s didn't come within a country mile of the numbers actually known to have been built. Likely the '50s rifles were German captures. That leaves a whole big pile of 1903s unaccounted for. The military ones can never hope to duplicate the careful handwork and fitting which went into the rare commercials, but they were wonderful examples of Steyr craftsmanship.

We can hope, at least, that there is a warehouse full of them somewhere, waiting to be sold. Or even just ONE little rack of unfired ones.....

Still and all, the one in this thread must represent the best of the best.
 
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Photos as promised;

Empty butt-stock trapdoor :(;
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The scope and mount. The front spring-loaded clips attach to a lug that's dovetailed in the receiver. The rear claw backs onto a screw, then you press the front down. It is very sturdy, yet easy to remove - an elegant attachment to be sure.
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Bullet-drop compensator for 100-300M. Glass is a little foggy on this old Kahles scope but it's definitely usable.
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A shot of the see-through channel, the photo's not so good but you get the idea;
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For size comparison, my other small-bore carbines. The M-S is by far the lightest and most natural to handle (so much for progress :p);
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Hey thanks for the close up pictures of the factory mounted scope and mounts!! Just for an example in 1958 a carbine was $198 US and one with a Kahles scope and mount sold for $340 US!!! alot of money even for a post war gun! You have an very early type scope mount and are worth thier weight in gold today, I am very envious of your find, you can't beat European craftsmanship of that period. I hope at least on a nice day you take the carbine for an afternoon stroll, best of luck Dale
 
geologist said:
I am just so jealous that you bought MY rifle. ;)

Great find and thanks for sharing!
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Thanks! Don't worry, I'll take good care of it for you :p

zywina said:
Hey thanks for the close up pictures of the factory mounted scope and mounts!! Just for an example in 1958 a carbine was $198 US and one with a Kahles scope and mount sold for $340 US!!! alot of money even for a post war gun! You have an very early type scope mount and are worth thier weight in gold today, I am very envious of your find, you can't beat European craftsmanship of that period. I hope at least on a nice day you take the carbine for an afternoon stroll, best of luck Dale
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Thanks, that scope was definitely the deciding factor for me to buy it. Those prices give me a kick, I keep a good collection of old catalogs for research and laughs. I've only ever seen reference to the Springer-type scope once or twice, too bad it's a little fogged but I'm over it... :D
 
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381807
Here is a link to my 1903 MS, page 2 for pics. While not original, it is close to it's true form.
I've collected fullstock rifles for a few years now, each one is a work of art. I have a few Steyr-Mannlichers and am quite pleased with them, regardless of what others think.
Congratulations on your purchase, you are indeed a lucky man.
Cheers,
Chris
 
Thanks, I feel lucky indeed. Like you, I waited a long time for the privilege of owning one. Seems to me most folks only part with these when they die, once the get their hands on one they keep 'em. ;)

The replacement stock on yours is very beautiful, I like it better than mine to be honest. Hey, how does the peep site work with respect to the leaf sight? Does it look over the leaf? Just curious...

I also want to try a Steyr-Mannlicher, I like to form my own opinions. They look great but seem to share mixed reviews.
Cheers!
 
Ill tell you the barrell sight does not interfere with the peep sight as it fold down out of the way if you perfer, this is the early 1200 serial# rifle I was telling you mine friend owns, mine is set up the same way and if you want you just push the peep sight arm out of the way to use the rear barrell sight, take care Dale
 
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