That's the way to shot a PG shotty accurately as possible....Although I am right eye dominant, that's basically how I do it. Not as accurate as a full stock, but it works.
Pistol Grip Shotguns: Function or Fantasy?
- Thread starter manbearpig
- Start date
That's the way to shot a PG shotty accurately as possible....Although I am right eye dominant, that's basically how I do it. Not as accurate as a full stock, but it works.
Deja vu
Dlask 8.5 inch barrelled 870 - first impressions - Now with picS
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97488
Title removed
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180430
Ergonomic Pistol Grip?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285482
bird's head grip?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170349
Ever shoot slugs from a pistol grip?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304234
Witness-Protection Shotgun w/ 14" barrel
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31351
pistol grip on Remington 870
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321961
Animal Defence Pump Shotgun
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361732
In my opinion, pistol gripped shotguns are very specialized tools for very specialized applications.
They have their place.
Dlask 8.5 inch barrelled 870 - first impressions - Now with picS
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97488
Title removed
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180430
Ergonomic Pistol Grip?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285482
bird's head grip?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170349
Ever shoot slugs from a pistol grip?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304234
Witness-Protection Shotgun w/ 14" barrel
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31351
pistol grip on Remington 870
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321961
Animal Defence Pump Shotgun
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361732
In my opinion, pistol gripped shotguns are very specialized tools for very specialized applications.
They have their place.
BrotherRockeye
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rural Saskatchewan
folder for certain.
not a fan of pgo.
prefer a 20" barrel as well.
jmo
not a fan of pgo.
prefer a 20" barrel as well.
jmo
You are correct, the PGO shotgun isn't totally useless but its appeal is founded on laziness with regards to carry. If laziness is the reason a person does not carry a full stock shotgun, they deserve the drama they may encounter with a bear as they are the author of their own piss poor planning. Personally, the firearm is the first priority, everything else comes after. A sling solves most issues associated with the discomfort of extended carry. If the concern is alarming other hikers, I say f*ck'em. If you're legal to carry in the area you frequent then the "alarming" nature of a firearm is a problem for others to deal with. Increasing the time required to bring a firearm to bear(no pun intended) because its stowed inside a pack for the benefit of others is plain ignorant. My safety, and in fact their safety depends on my ability to deploy the firearm quickly.
TDC
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
"its all about weight" except when it comes to a firearm for bear defense. If it can't be used effectively and efficiently, there's no point in carrying it at all. I hike/camp to find places to shoot, so the weight of the firearm and ridiculous amounts of ammo aren't really negotiable.
TDC
X2
They're fun to play with but next to useless if your life is depending on them.
Just my 2 cents
GO
Manbearpig, thats how I shoot my maverick 88 PGO, a local shop got a whole whack of remington managed recoil slugs that I bought 10 boxes of. For recoil they are somewhere between winchester universal 1 1/4 oz. and winchester 2 3/4" 1 oz. standard 1600 fps slug loads. I loaded the 88 up with 3 rounds of win. 1 oz. followed by managed recoil and there is a noticible increase in recoil, but not excessive. Accuracy? well you dont have the stock planted in your shoulder so your trigger hand has to control the rear of the shotgun, making aiming slightly more difficult, but quite manageable. 50 yd. accuracy is exactly the same as full stock because you're using your front sight.
I'm going to try 3" slugs in this position because its quite easy to control the shotgun and recoil once you learn the proper technique, and which muscles must be utilized. Your off hand absorbs 50% of the recoil which takes a huge strain off your palm and wrist, and the shotgun honestly doesnt travel very far back because your arms can hold back more force when fully extended, as opposed to compressed with the PG inches from your face. To learn to shoot like this, first start with light target loads and mimic the position in the video you posted, place your off hand at the rear of the forend and extend your arms until your off hand arm is almost locked. Anticipate the recoil pushing back towards you on both your arms and brace firmly for the recoil. Always remember to keep the shotgun as far from your face as comfortably possible and through practice you will figure out a comfortable position and which muscles to utilize. I can now let off 6 rd.s of 2 3/4" winchesters rapid fire quite accurately, and make slower, more accurate shots with good speed. I hope this helps more people understand PGO shotguns, I believe they are quite useful for my needs and thats why I pack one in the woods. Hip shooting is not the only way and is quite a bit harder on the palm/wrist, but if full stock is for you, I respectfully agree, I have one of those too and it kicks ass.
Wrong...
Technically its half right. They break them with rams, their feet, butts of shotguns (dangerous?), breach charges (swat) or their shoulders.
I guess "cops" dont usually do much breaching with objects anyway, as they usually save that for the tac teams don't they?
- Location
- London, Ontario
PGO shotguns are fun and not as unaccurate as people like to claim but you can only shoot it so much before it hurts alot. Why not buy a shotgun with a stock and then buy a pistol grip for $15 and change it out when you feel lit it? Then you have the best of both worlds
I voted for "fantasy", and yet I'm getting ready for a camping trip where we will be in bear country (slave lake), and just switched the mossberg back to a pistol grip. I'm not a fan of them for most purposes, but there's not a lot of room in our tent, and a short handy shotgun will be a lot more versatile than a full size stock or rifle. That being said, I'll have a rifle in the car for any daylight encounters.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
^i hope youve practiced with it?
i wouldnt take any gun for that purpose unless i was sure i could shoot it reasonably accurately.
i wouldnt take any gun for that purpose unless i was sure i could shoot it reasonably accurately.
I've bruised the web of my hand numerous times with the pistol grip! I can hit what I'm aiming at, but still prefer a full stock. If I'm using the shotgun from the tent, chances are the distance will be close enough I won't have to aim that closely to hit my target.
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
^i hope youve practiced with it?
i wouldnt take any gun for that purpose unless i was sure i could shoot it reasonably accurately.
I'am thinking if the bear is tearing through the tent, you don't need to worry about aiming it a whole lot.
The "teams" are comprised of cops...
Hence why I termed the original comment as being "wrong"...
Even a smaller P.D. will often have a rapid response team, but it's operators won't have the benefit (due to manning & budget issues) to "play TacStar" all day/every day.
They'll be patrolling just like every other uni out there, packing their kit in the trunk, waiting for the call to go out...
Large forces (i.e: O-Town & MTL) can afford to have dedicated teams...
Being a member of a tactical intervention team comes with an extensive amount of specialised training.
Dynamic breaching (not to be confused with explosive breaching) is part of this training.
The use of a large steel implement (i.e: the "Hooligan", door ram, Thunder Maul or the good ol' crow bar), coupled with anger & brawn, is far from being the option of choice under certain circumstances.
The Method of Entry is determined by a variety of factors, chieftly amongst those is "the known & estimated threat(s) to team members & bystanders" & the "environmentals" of the objective...
To put it in layman's terms, I'll use a simple example: an armed & erratic assailant holds a [inset weapon of choice] to a hostage's head/throat/vital area. Windows are covered, so no "eyes on". The perp has made it clear that any attempt by LEO to enter the premisce will be answered by an instant execution...
In such a case, banging away at the front door with a 27 lbs Hooligan & reckless abandon may not be the best choice.
Why not use the ram then? It's a sure-shot door buster, right?
Nope... It's not... I've seen & experienced doors who can resist a full-on blow from the heaviest of rams & laugh it off...
But maybe even worse, is what we call the "Joe Montana" effect =)
Picture this: A full stack waiting on you to "crack the combo". Adrenaline coursing through your body mixed in with countless other "emotions". Both hands kung-fu gripping your ram. Taking the Happy Gilmore run-up. 200 lbs of Alpha Male backed by 58 lbs of ballistic armor & tactical equipment powering a 45 lbs breaching apparatus.
You swing as hard as you can and just as it makes contact, you prep to release (as you've trained countless times to do). But you don't...
You hold on just too long, and as the door flies open & the ram continues it's crash course into the great "unkwon", it's taking you with it...
That right there, is the Joe Montana... And the Joe Montana is a bad day for the breacher...
Not only are you entering technically unarmed, but you're also entering a high rate of knots, totally airborne & soon-to-be severely hurt...
If you're lucky enough to have had accurate & up to date schematics of the objective, you may break a few ribs once you hit the ground. Upon impact you now have to deal with whoever may be in the room.
If the tenant decided to do some renos to the place & the schematics are out of date, you might be sailing head first down a flight of stairs.
The Joe Montana, even if survived without a scratch is something a breacher will never live down.
The use of a well placed T.E.S.A.R. or Hatton round can drastically expedite the entry process.
Followed by a D.D., the effect of flying door knob may buy the team the very critical time they need to neutralise the offender before said offender enacts his/her threat.
The use of a shotgun as MOE is not always advised though.
As mentioned, the "environmentals" of the objective also ditacte the tool & approach to be used...
The possibility of a gas leak or rigged POE may cancel the opportunity to breach via shotgun &/or door/wall/window charge.
In such an event, mechanical breaching may be the only viable alternative.
If none of the latter methods are advisable, the "soft knock" approach may be favored...
Methods that will not be utilised (by any remotely intelligent individual) would include the use of the butt of the shotgun or the shoulder...
Only on T.V. shows such as COPS will you see such stupidity proudly displayed.
A door will be kicked only after the locking mechanism has been removed/destroyed by other means. So kicking to gain entry is not an option either.
All this may/will be subject to change if the intervening officer doesn't have time to wait for a tactical unit's assistance & must gain entry immediately. At which point, if he is a fervent fan of such show as COPS, ha may very well attempt a breach via buttstock, Lawrence Taylor shoulder dive or Chuck Norris front kick...
Success (and the potential for a self-inflicted injury) would be a gamble in such an instance.
So, an extremely long-winded post, to say this: the use of a Vindicator-gripped, short-barrelled (and I mean short) shotgun is a viable, and most importantly, a utilised method of entry for canadian LEO.
But I won't be taking the "money shot" with a PGO shotty though...
Not if I want to keep my job, benefits & freedom while staying off the front page of every newspaper & 1800/2300 hr media medium in the country.
Back to the OP: Do PGO shotguns have a place IRL?
Sure...
Gh0sT OuT~!
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
heh, i reread his post and it seems i skimmed over the part about only using it in the tent
i can just see it now: you wake up to a bear tearing apart your tent... still sleep-disoriented you fire your PGO shotgun while the tent collapses around you. days later the COs find your partially eaten corpse, and remark about the fact that all your front teeth are missing and theres a chewed up PG shotgun nearby
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Myself, I alway make sure to keep the Bug/bear screen zipped close.
There's a good chance that "Bear" isn't going to stick around if you touch off a 12ga round even close to him, if you've ever been on the fireing line and not got you ear defenders on in time,you'll know why,and their ears are more sensitive,it'd be a .72 caliber bear banger in your face yogi. mind you, it wouldn't do your hearing any good ether.
There's a good chance that "Bear" isn't going to stick around if you touch off a 12ga round even close to him, if you've ever been on the fireing line and not got you ear defenders on in time,you'll know why,and their ears are more sensitive,it'd be a .72 caliber bear banger in your face yogi. mind you, it wouldn't do your hearing any good ether.
