.45-70 for hunting?

Until the Angels Fall

Until the Angels Fall

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I have been thinking ALOT about getting a Marlin lever in this calibur BUT I cannot find out much on it. My questions are.... whats the "biggest" game I can hunt with it, effective range, how accurate is it, price for a box of ammo?

Thanks, UTAF
 
Biggest game? Anything on the planet can be comfortably killed with a 45-70 and good loads. Effective range- I'd say about 250 is the farthest I would take shots with mine. It has plenty of stopping power past that, but the rainbow trajectory makes hits tricky. I've always considered it to be an accurate caliber, and if you handload it is one the most versatile calibers you'll ever use. Anything from cast bullets at 1500 fps for low recoil plinking, all the way up to a 500 gr. hardcast Garrett Hammerhead at around 1900 fps for a load that will stop anything. If you compare max loads for a 45-70 to a standard .458 Mag, they aren't really that far apart.
 
Until the Angels Fall said:
I have been thinking ALOT about getting a Marlin lever in this calibur BUT I cannot find out much on it. My questions are.... whats the "biggest" game I can hunt with it, effective range, how accurate is it, price for a box of ammo?

Thanks, UTAF
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biggest game ........................ the limiting factor isn't going to be the gun so much , but instead your nerve .
you may find find yourself packing 6 days worth of underwear for a 3 day hunt :D :p

you really need to handload this caliber to realise it's full potential .

in a strong action ( like a ruger #1 ) where you can seat the bullet out farther , you can come very close to doubling the factory round for power .
 
Dam straight on that, I was reading where a guy took a Marlin GG to Africa . had to convince the prof. guide it was enough gun & put a 500gr. hardcast right through BOTH shoulders of a water buffalo. amazing if you can bang flop one of those .You have to realize it goes in almost the same size as most come out after mushroom.I guess like all calibers though it realy comes down to the guy on the other ends skill.



burnt_servo said:
biggest game ........................ the limiting factor isn't going to be the gun so much , but instead your nerve .
you may find find yourself packing 6 days worth of underwear for a 3 day hunt :D :p

you really need to handload this caliber to realise it's full potential .

in a strong action ( like a ruger #1 ) where you can seat the bullet out farther , you can come very close to doubling the factory round for power .
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I agree with most, reloaded with quality cast wfn or lfn bullets of 400 or more grains, will allow you to hunt anything in N.A. if not the world. The only limiting factors may be recoil, and the fact that long range shooting is not it's forte, 200 yds. max., again due to flat pt. bullet design. Whether you are using a harder cast bullet at higher speeds or a softer slower bullet, a heavier, longer bullet should ensure plenty of penetration and stopping power.
 
The 45/70 will go much farther than 200 yards with effective ethical stopping power. Using the pointed bullets, for example the leverevolution, greatly changes the game with this round. There is a reason why it is called the buffalo gun. I am waiting for my Marlin to come in as well, for CAS. Right now I have the buffalo classic, I can almost just tap the target on the top cuz the barrel is so long.
 
I don't believe that "revolution" bullets change anything, these short bullets will not have much left beyond 200 yds. esp. when compared to the real heavy hitters inside 200 yds... I know, buffalo hunters shot them at 1000yds or more, but they were flock shooting and it really didn't matter much if they wounded one, as they were shooting all day for money, and weren't really conservationists.
 
I recently took my Guide Gun to the range with some Factory loads. If my other rifle wasn't a 6.5 swede I wouldn't shoot any other gun. Now, I just need to get drawn for Wood Bison. Can't wait to load up some rounds for it.
 
I am going to take my .458 x 2 inch American for deer & black bear hunting this year. I recently mounted a Leupold 1.75-6 scope on this large ring Mauser. It's essentially a H&H belted 45-70, the 450 Marlin is even closer to it by design. I plan on keeping my shooting, to less than 150 yards or so.
 
i have a .450 Marlin, the ballistic twin to a hot-loaded .45-70. I have taken game from 6yrds to 150yrds with it. in all cases the animals (bears and moose) dropped at the shot. .350gr @ 2150 is serious medicine, I wouldn't feel under gunned hunting any and all north american game with this load. personal limits (i use peep sights) is 200yrds with this rifle. +3" @ 100 -6" @ 200.


can't find info on it? probably one of the most discussed rifle/caliber combos discussed on the internet.
 
I have to agree with Ben. In my GG I load my 405 gr bullets to about 1500 fps. It will kill anything I want within reason. I never shoot beyond 100 yards as the trajectory is a limiting factor. Does it have the power yes.

Unlike smaller calibers it is not the shock value that kills, it is that big chunk of lead using momentum to punch a big hold through the game.
 
ben hunchak said:
I don't believe that "revolution" bullets change anything, these short bullets will not have much left beyond 200 yds. esp. when compared to the real heavy hitters inside 200 yds... I know, buffalo hunters shot them at 1000yds or more, but they were flock shooting and it really didn't matter much if they wounded one, as they were shooting all day for money, and weren't really conservationists.
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They are not a game changer at all. In fact, I have found that they don't stabalize as well in my GG as any other bullet. Past about 200 yards they really start to open up compared to a well made hard cast. What's the point of the pointed bullet if it's less accurate at the ranges where it has any advantage.

The worst part is that to shoot them in the Marlin lever, you need to either modify your lifter and ejector or shorten your brass due to the increased OAL. They're just a gimmick if you ask me and Hornady's cheap trick to get you to buy their: dies, brass, bullets, etc.
 
Just thought I'd add a word on accuracy. With athe scope on my GG is a drill. Once I found the 3031 load with the 405 Rem. it shoots uder an inch. In fact I've got several 1/2" groups. I now shoot the heavy 420 cast bullets with no scope. They're plenty accurate. Haven't shot anything with it yet but this fall everything better keep it's head down.
 
By African standards the .458 is lacking and the .45/70 doesn't quite measure up to the .458. When dangerous game is being hunted though, confrontation with the animal is the point of the exercise, so close range shooting is the accepted norm. Under these circumstances and with a proper heavy hard cast WFN bullet, the .45/70 would and has performed admirably, despite its detractors. By the way, water buffalo are found in Asia, and African buffalo by temperament are an entirely different kettle of fish.

With respect to North American buffalo (Bison) the animal slaughtered on the American Great Plains was the plains buffalo and is much smaller than the larger Wood Buffalo of the North. We saw a huge specimen on the Alaska Highway who was grey with age, and stepped over a concrete barrier without breaking stride. His eye was the size of a coffee cup and he simply dwarfed the other animals around him. He must have been nearly 7 ' at the hump. If I ever hunt bison, that is the trophy I have in mind. Anyway, the point is that the smaller southern buffalo were not difficult to kill with the rifles of the day, the majority of which were lessor than the fabled .50-140-550-3.25" Sharps which was not even available until most of the buffalo had been killed off. Ranges were typically short, despite the 1000 yard pokes we read of, often well within 200 yards with the hunters locating themselves on a knoll and often with more than one rifle per man. I doubt that many 1000 yard shots were taken. First they were not necessary and secondly, a wasted shot didn't make you any money in what was a commercial venture. Because you were far from civilization and resupply, wasting your supply of ammo would not have been prudent, particularly at a time and place where you were continually under threat of attack by Indians, Commanchies, or bandits. As the shooting commenced, the individuals in the herd would simply mill around until they too were hit. Within several minutes dozens of animals were down and the work of the skinners would commence while the shooters would continue ahead to search for another herd.

Modern rifles and loads available for the .45/70 make it a fine choice for the big game hunter who makes his shots at about 150 yards or for the individual needing bear protection. Light loads will put small game in the pot, and mid weight bullets with less recoil are find for deer hunting. The heavy bullet loads will also kill deer, but those are the loads that really shine for big bears, moose and elk. Again we see that it is the handloader who determines the versatility of the rifle and not the cartridge.
 
Brutus said:
Anyone here make/use shot loads for thier 45-70?

This could be a project for myself soon. As here in Alberta, in many zones big game & upland bird season coincide, right down to the season closing date.
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Yes, I use a duplex powder to get enough gas volume under the pellets (1/2 BP 1/2 fast pistol powder). Anything smaller than #6 shot doughnuts bad. I use a wool or felt .45 muzzleloader wad under a paper shot cup and compress the shot slightly before sealing it all up with parafin wax. Works well on rabbits and squirrels at close range (<20 yards). I've been wanting to drill out an 1895 CB and do this right but even a stock GG works well.

If you want better shot shells, you can extend the max OAL of the gun and use necked down 45-90 brass. Neck the first bit down to .457 to protect your throat.
 
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Bare in mind 45/70 and 45/90 is a straight walled case whereas 458 american is not. That might go kaboom. Not sure if the bottleneck is too much of a restriction for the shot or not. It will likely deform the shot sufficiently to wreck the pattern though ;-)

The powder to shot ratio is 1:1 by volume for BP. Smokeless produces 3 times the gas as BP (v/v), so if the duplex is a 50:50 mix, you want about 1/3 powder and 2/3 shot.

Brutus said:
Thanks for the reply bigslide. Myself I will be using my 458 American, but I have some uncut 458 Win Mag brass lying around doing nothing.
You ideas have me thinking now......Hhhhmmmmm....
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cd458x2.jpg

This is on an FN-K98 action, you'll need C4 to make it KB.
 
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