2010 PGW Defence Technologies Inc. Manitoba F Class Rifle Championship

PETE1 I don't know if Terry (F-TR 1st) has posted yet but Matt (F-TR 2nd) has. I don't know if Paul (F-TR 3rd) is on CGN or not, I'll try to remember to ask him tomorrow. I guess this leaves BillW (F-TR 4th) and opening here... ;-)


Nice looking rifle setup you have there. Further questions I would ask about your setup are:
- cartridge OAL and also how much jam or jump that gives you with your chamber? (especially since you shoot Lapua 155s, these figures are of great interest to me)
-ballpark muzzle velocity (no need to post charge weights)
-(super geeky stuff now..;-) typical ES or SD of load

I am assuming that you were th fifth place F-TR shooter? If so, with your score of 32 Vs it is *highly* suggestive that you as a shooter and also your rifle and ammo were performing at national-match-winning levels of accuracy. A shooter can flub a wind call or crossfire a shot, or get an unusual number of "lucky" shots (either lucky-just-in or unlucky-just-out) and those "tales" just don't show up in the scores. But there's only one set of circumstances that can explain a high V count.
 
rnbra-shooter said:
PETE1 I don't know if Terry (F-TR 1st) has posted yet but Matt (F-TR 2nd) has. I don't know if Paul (F-TR 3rd) is on CGN or not, I'll try to remember to ask him tomorrow. I guess this leaves BillW (F-TR 4th) and opening here... ;-)


Nice looking rifle setup you have there. Further questions I would ask about your setup are:
- cartridge OAL and also how much jam or jump that gives you with your chamber? (especially since you shoot Lapua 155s, these figures are of great interest to me)
-ballpark muzzle velocity (no need to post charge weights)
-(super geeky stuff now..;-) typical ES or SD of load

I am assuming that you were th fifth place F-TR shooter? If so, with your score of 32 Vs it is *highly* suggestive that you as a shooter and also your rifle and ammo were performing at national-match-winning levels of accuracy. A shooter can flub a wind call or crossfire a shot, or get an unusual number of "lucky" shots (either lucky-just-in or unlucky-just-out) and those "tales" just don't show up in the scores. But there's only one set of circumstances that can explain a high V count.
Click to expand...



47.5 grains varget bullets jammed into the lands. I was tight for time so I primed and loaded the brass right out oh the box. Have not shot over a chrono yet.
 
Daniel - excellent comments on the V count. After 155 rounds on score and 775 points available, there were some tight finishes - in F-TR, 2 points separated the top 4 and all of the top 6 were decided by V-counts. It was a great time! Here's my data:

Gun Specs (weighing in at 18.1#, shooting in F-TR):
Remington 700 SA (stainless steel action) - essentially factory
Rock Creek barrel 1x11.25" 5R @26.5" & M852 chamber
trigger - Remington factory (adjusted)
stock - MAK tube & Magpul PRS, with 25 MOA rail
bipod - lightened Rempel
scope - NF NSX 8-32 NP-R2 & NF Al rings

Ammo:
Winchester brass
CCI BR2 primer
H4895 powder
210 VLD Berger bullet @2.840" COAL & 2510 fps

Bill
 
PETE 1 said:
47.5 grains varget bullets jammed into the lands. I was tight for time so I primed and loaded the brass right out oh the box. Have not shot over a chrono yet.
Click to expand...

Quite interesting. While Varget is known to vary a fair bit from lot to lot, that load would be overly hot in my setup. With Lapua brass and Lapua 155s, a hard jam into the lands in my .308 Obermayer chamber would be at about 2.850" COAL. In ,y .3070" MacLennan barrels I would expect 47.5 Varget to be in the 3050-3100fps range out of a 30" barrel; this might be too hot (in the sense of loosening primer pockets), also I found that I could not get good accuracy or velocity uniformity with hot loads behind a Lapua 155 (whereas hot loads behind an Sierra #2155 works brilliantly).

I am wondering whether your chamber's throat is longer than mine (e.g. maybe hard into the lands in your chamber is a COAL of 2.925" or 2.950", which would be a nicer setup for the Lapua 155s), also I wonder if your Kireiger is a .3065", .3075" or .3080".

Anyhow all my questions are mostly for my curiosity. Your high V count at long range tells the tale, which is that you have a good long range load.

scout said:
Daniel - excellent comments on the V count. After 155 rounds on score and 775 points available, there were some tight finishes - in F-TR, 2 points separated the top 4 and all of the top 6 were decided by V-counts. It was a great time!
Click to expand...

(I am guessing that "scout" is the 4th place F-TR shooter....?)

One more comment on scores coming from the other direction. If a shooter has a modest or low V count, but a high score, his low V count usually suggests that he is getting only middling grouping performance from his rifle+ammo combination and/or him as a shooter (in the sense of aiming well and breaking shots with a good call). But his comparatively higher score suggests superior performance from him as a match tactician and strategist, and/or wind reading skills.

If I was assembling a rifle team, I would try to pick shooter+rifle combos who show themselves capable of delivering very high V counts. I wouldn't quite ignore points lost. Any points lost due to shooter stupidity that might manifest itself in a match (e.g. crossfires, or firing a bad shot under pressure) I would want to "hold against" that shooter. But any shots lost due to errors in group centering or mediocre wind reading skills I would not hold against him in the least, since in a team match the coach will be doing that. Of course it can be difficult to figure out which if any of his dropped points are "culpable", so there will be a bit of an art as to how a team captain would have to interpret that. The V count is pretty simple though, you blame a high V count on the shooter and his equipment and give them full credit for that.

And for the coaches I would particularly want people who have shown themselves able to get relatively high scores out of relatively badly grouping shooter+rifle combos. To the extent that I was picking coaches based on their own individual shooting I would choose on points only, and if anything I would give a bonus to points scored with lower V counts.

Of course it's really easy for me to tell you how I might pick a team, because I am not picking a team....! ;-)
 
I dont' want to speak too much for others, but-

Terry Perkins was shooting a Rem 700 in a MAK tube gun, w/ 1-12" barrel, 155.5 Bergers, and a Sightron

Paul McIlveen shot a Savage action in a plaster Ultimate Varminter stock, 1-12" Lothar Walther barrel, 155.5 Bergers, and a 12-42 NF NXS.

I shot w/ Pete on Day 2, and he can drive that rifle- I'd hate to see how the rifle shoots w/ fireformed brass!
 
mpwolf said:
I shot w/ Pete on Day 2, and he can drive that rifle- I'd hate to see how the rifle shoots w/ fireformed brass!
Click to expand...

Seconded - shot with him on Day 3 as well - damn fine shooting, and you have to emphasize that it's always the shooter, not the equipment!!! Looking forward to shootig with him again (& you and Terry, Matt).

Cheers!

Bill
 
scout said:
Seconded - shot with him on Day 3 as well - damn fine shooting, and you have to emphasize that it's always the shooter, not the equipment!!! Looking forward to shootig with him again (& you and Terry, Matt).

Cheers!

Bill
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliments guys but your really not helping my already big ego:D

I have to agree with something I believe Matt said at the PGW hog roast that when your shooting side by side with top notch shooters it forces yourself to bring up your level shooting as well.So based on that I have to thank the fine gents I was squaded with for making me shoot better.

Cheers
Pete
 
K.303 - now the bad news, as a regional Fclass match, it can and may travel around the country, Wpg one yr, BC the next, Alta the next, Sask.... NFLD... etc so plan on expenses for accommodations, travel, food, ammo on top of your match fees :)
 
kevin.303 said:
bah! i'll just wait till it's here again
Click to expand...

If everyone had that attitude these shoots would never happen because no one would ever come to them. How many would have been at the Winnipeg shoot had people from BC, AB, SAS or ONT not shown up?

It is planned to happen in BC next year at Vokes Range in Chilliwack, Ian would have dates and times.
 
Kodiak99317 said:
K.303 - now the bad news, as a regional Fclass match, it can and may travel around the country, Wpg one yr, BC the next, Alta the next, Sask.... NFLD... etc so plan on expenses for accommodations, travel, food, ammo on top of your match fees :)
Click to expand...

There's not much chance the Western Canada regional match is going to make it to NFLD. If it does, things have gone terribly awry. Unless you are living in Eastern Europe there's no chance you'd consider Newfoundland as western.

Of course, if we wanted to organize the Newfoundland Provincial F class Championship and make it convenient for us westerners to attend, all we'd have to do is lease the range in Fort Mac, throw a pot of cabbage, turnips and salt pork on the stove and wait.....
 
On a totally different subject, the match raised $752.50 for the DCRA's 2013 F Class World Championship Team Fund. A huge thank you to all the cash prize winners who donated their prizes to the DCRA in support of the team.
 
An amazing group of people, the organizer gives up the top prize and shooters are donating the prize money. Is there another sport you would see that in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom