Collet Dies not very straight

saskhunter

saskhunter

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Hey guys looking for an opinion of some help. I have been loading for a long time and think my methods are sound but i bought a set of collet dies for my 300wsm and when i check the straightness on my case master gauge they sure are not very straight. My brass has run-out of up to 0.006 and when its loaded up the lead can be out up to 0.009. My brass once fired and dirty reads at 0.002 so obviously my dies are the culprit. Maybe its not enough to bother as it is only a hunting rifle and i am shooting 5 shot groups under an inch but it kind of ticks me off that these collet dies are supposed to be really good? everything i read says you should have brass not more that 0.003 out? :confused:
 
What brand/type of dies are they? Some use a straight, machined collet/mandrel, some boast of using a 'ball' expander (to make it easier to run cases through the die)- and there may be a problem with that type- namely, if the case tends to have a soft spot in the metal, a ball will naturally want to wander in that direction-and put your case neck out of round and not straight. Like water, that expander will want to follow the path of least resistance. At least, that's what I learned 'way back in high school machine shop. And other dies use variations of both.

If they're shooting that good through that die, I'd call it nothing to worry about. If you were shooting benchrest competition and thought it was hampering your groups, I'd at least try a different die.

This is entirely my opinion based on limited experience and knowledge; I could be wrong.
 
Check the runout on your reloading press, it may be the cause of the runout, If your press is out then it will coupound problems down the line.

I have checked runout on my one and only collet die I have and runout is barely measureable on my runout gauge.
 
Reducing case run-out

saskhunter .....

The biggest reason I've found for excessive case run-out is pushing the shoulder back farther than necessary. (That's an especially bad idea with belted magnum handloads.)

It's best to bump the shoulder with your FL die, but no more than .001" or .002" at the most. This requires comparing your handloads (at the shoulder) to one of your fired cases.

This will usually reduce your case run-out to .002" or less if done correctly.
 
everything i read says you should have brass not more that 0.003 out?
Click to expand...

Not everything you read is true.

A bunch of years ago I measured and sorted some ammo into groups based on their runout. Then I went and shot groups with each group of ammo. Much to my chagrin I found that the ammo with the greatest runout printed the smallest groups.

I can't explain why that may have been but I immediately returned the runout gauge to its owner and have never measured ammo since. Sometimes things that appear to be wrong are not.
 
It's true that with "some" rifles you won't notice one speck of improvement by reducing case run-out. However, I've never heard of anyone "seeking" maximum run-out to improve accuracy. Ha Ha

It's very easy to minimize run-out, and that's a very good reason to check it out. It's one thing that "might" improve your accuracy. I've seen outragious run-out on handloads that were way out of the ball park.

When your handloading technique is good, you don't need to worry about it. There are other things like "chamber clearance" that is much more important.
 
If it's a Lee Collett Die try sizing it once and then rotating the case 90-180 degrees and sizing again and then measure the runout. I think their die instructions or the Lee reloading book recommends this to reduce runout to the point of not having to trim necks. Their "expander" is not a ball but a shaft.
 
Innovative said:
saskhunter .....

The biggest reason I've found for excessive case run-out is pushing the shoulder back farther than necessary. (That's an especially bad idea with belted magnum handloads.)

It's best to bump the shoulder with your FL die, but no more than .001" or .002" at the most. This requires comparing your handloads (at the shoulder) to one of your fired cases.

This will usually reduce your case run-out to .002" or less if done correctly.
Click to expand...

Not sure i understand what you are measuring or how to do that? I used a full length die to size it and checked the run out and it was quite bad so used the collet and tried to straighten it. Then tried only the collet but still was not good according to the literature i have. Like i said it does shoot ok for me. I am sure better than my ability.
300wsm.jpg

Maybe i will just shoot what i have and be happy.
It is lee collet dies that i have. Upon further reading it says not to lube the cases and i did. Maybe not enough room in them for lube?
 
snomad is right, run your sizer die down half a stroke and then turn your brass 180 degrees and full stoke. the dies have more precision than the presses that the are mounted in.
 
zthou said:
snomad is right, run your sizer die down half a stroke and then turn your brass 180 degrees and full stoke. the dies have more precision than the presses that the are mounted in.
Click to expand...

I did turn and press it again but i went all the way down on the first stroke. I checked the straightness before the 1/4 turn and after and it did help some but never got it better than 0.004
i sure appreciate all the help and tips. Thanks gunnutz
 
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